Posted on 10/16/2018 4:14:18 AM PDT by tlozo
Israel and the United States sent a secret military delegation to Ukraine to test the Russian-made S-300 missile defense system, which Moscow recently provided to Syria, Hadashot TV news reported Monday, citing Syrian and Russian news outlets.
There was no comment on the reports from either Israel or the US.
According to the reports, members of the Ukrainian military instructed their US and Israeli counterparts on the capabilities of the system, as well as running through various possible scenarios.
One Russian report said that F-15 planes are training in Ukraine against the S-300 as part of an international exercise that includes Israeli pilots. It wasn’t immediately clear if the Israeli pilots were flying or merely observing from the ground.
Tensions remain high between Russia and Ukraine since Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Crimea and the subsequent conflict in eastern Ukraine. The Kremlin has been known to direct misinformation as a tool in the conflict.
It has been widely reported that the Israeli Air Force has been training against the S-300 in exercises in Greece, perhaps since 2007. Israel and the US are both thought to be using stealth aircraft in Syrian maneuvers. Two of three new F-35 fighter jets land on an airstrip in the Israeli Air Force’s Nevatim base in southern Israel on June 24, 2018. (Israel Defense Forces)
The IAF returned its fleet of F-35 stealth fighters to full service on Sunday, after grounding it last week in light of the state-of-the-art aircraft’s first-ever crash, which took place in the United States, the army said. The pilot ejected safely.
Israeli planes have carried out hundreds of strikes in Syria against what it says are Iranian and Hezbollah targets, but there have been no reports of suspected Israeli airstrikes since the accidental Syrian downing of a Russian plane during an Israeli airstrike in Syria, an incident that raised tensions between Israel and Russia.
Fifteen Russians were killed in the September 17 incident, which Moscow blamed on Israel, accusing its pilots of using the larger Russian plane as cover.
Israel disputes the Russian findings and says its jets were back in Israeli airspace when the plane was downed.
In response, Moscow announced new measures to protect its military in Syria, including equipping Damascus with S-300 air defense systems.
Russia and Israel set up a hotline in 2015 to avoid accidental clashes in Syria, but the new measures have led to concern among Israelis that their strikes will now be limited there.
At the opening of the Knesset’s winter session on Monday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hailed ties with Russia, saying he is in “direct, frequent contact with Russian President Vladimir Putin” to confront the “complex, very difficult challenges in our region.”
Netanyahu said his personal relationship with Putin has enabled unprecedented “trust” between the two countries.
“This is very important for Israel’s security,” he said.
The prime minister said last week that he had told Russia’s vice premier that Israel must continue to hit hostile targets in neighboring Syria despite Moscow’s decision to equip Damascus with the S-300.
Netanyahu said at a press conference that he told Maxim Akimov in talks in Jerusalem that Israel would continue to fight what it says are Iranian attempts to entrench itself militarily in Syria and channel advanced weaponry to its Lebanese ally, the Hezbollah terror group.
Despite the delivery of the S-300 air defense systems to the Syrian military, Israel was committed as a matter of self-defense to continue its “legitimate activity in Syria against Iran and its proxies, which state their intention to destroy us,” Netanyahu said.
Besides Ukraine and the United States, Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania and the United Kingdom are participating.
U.S. participants will include the Air National Guard and other stateside and overseas units, according to USAFE. This year marks the 25th anniversary of collaboration between the California Air National Guard and Ukraine as part of U.S. European Command’s State Partnership Program. California units will be heavily represented, with F-15C Eagles and C-130J Super Hercules.
The Ukrainian Air Force plan to assign 5 units of tactical aviation, included Su-24, Su-27, MiG-29 combat aircraft.
The Polish Air Force sent four modern F-16 fighter jets.
Training will focus on air sovereignty, air interdiction, air-to-ground integration, air mobility operations, aeromedical evacuation, cyber defense, and personnel recovery.
I don’t see where Ukraine got these S-300s. Or if they know how to use them. Then there’s the S-400s which the Russians already have in Syria.
I don’t see where Ukraine got these S-300s
Training against an older version of the 300 is useless as it is obsolete. The variant (manned by Iranians) supplied to Syria is the S-300PMU-2. What 300 variant did Russia or the USSR supply to the Ukrainians? Does any one know? What Russian anti-air missiles versions is it supplied with?
More significant is the Krasukha-4 units EW units sent to Syria against which the US has only limited knowledge and, AFAK, no practical experience. Are these unit in the Ukraine and are they part of the training?
The 36D6M1-1 radar, developed by Ukraine’s state-owned Scientific and Production Complex “Iskra,” is a designed to be used in modern automated air defense system and anti-aircraft missile systems.
Here’s what I’ve found on the S-300PMU-2 variant which does nor use 36D6M1-1 radar, unless the Ukrainians substituted it - which would mean that their S-300 version is older, and not the S-300PMU-2.
Unlike the previous S-300PMU-1, the S-300PMU-2 do not use the 36D6 (Tin Shield) and 76N6 (Clam Shell) radars.
S-300PMU-2 radars are:
96L6 all-altitude detector and acquisition radar. The 96L6 works in L-band. It has a 300 km range and very high resolution. The system can detect and track 100 targets. It identifies 4 target classes, including aircraft, helicopters, remotely piloted aerial vehicles, and missiles. It is claimed that this radar can also detect stealthy targets.
64N6E2 3D S-band radar is an upgraded/modernized version of 5N64S (64N6E). It is the most capable radar of the S-300 missile system and has a key role of defeating ballistic missiles and electronic warfare aircraft. This version has a maximum detection range of 600 km. It has 3 400 elements on each side (a total of 7 800), which is a great number for a radar in this band. The system has high resistance against jamming.
Batteries (TELS) also includes the 30N6E2 X-band engagement radar, the 96L6E L-band acquisition radar,
The S-300PMU-2 uses the 48N6E2 missile with a range of 200 km, speed of Mach 6, and altitude ranging from 10 m to up to 28 km. This missile is optimized to engage ballistic missiles for defeating more capable targets, like high speed re-entry vehicles in 35 km altitude, and ballistic missiles with a range of more than 2 000 km
The 9M96E and 9M96E2 missiles with a range of 40 and 120 km respectively. These missiles can engage targets with a maximum speed of Mach 15, capable of engaging cruise missiles, anti-radiation missiles, guided bombs and other precision guided munitions. The 48N6 missiles has single shot kill probability of 80% to 93% for an aerial target, 40% to 85% for cruise missiles and 50% to 77% for theater ballistic missiles. The 9M96 missiles has a single shot kill probability of 70% against Harpoon class missile and 90% against a manned aircraft.
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Training against the older variant is better than nothing, but useless against the later variants which are for all practical purposes different systems with different radars and missiles with different capabilities.
Ukraine will do anything to remain ‘relevant’ in the eyes of its new Western masters.
Meanwhile its economy and political life continue to stagnate.
Dont tell the Russians about this secret operation
“More significant is the Krasukha-4 units EW units sent to Syria against which the US has only limited knowledge and, AFAK, no practical experience. Are these unit in the Ukraine and are they part of the training?”
I would venture to guess that Israel knows exactly what they are up against, knows how to defeat it and probably has one at some secret testing center in Israel.
I would venture to guess that Israel knows exactly what they are up against, knows how to defeat it and probably has one at some secret testing center in Israel.
If any of that were true, Iran would not have been allowed to build up its arms and missile shipments to the same or greater levels before the 200 Israeli raids, and none have been conducted for a full month.
Israel does not know not only about operational S-300PMU-2 systems, it does not know anything about the EW system which guards the whole. To think otherwise is just wishful thinking in the face of actual evidence of their lack of knowledge of both systems. BTW, the US is in the same dark closet with the only difference being the US has a small fuzzy peep hole for light.
Not so secret.
A US pilot just died in a crash a couple of hours ago:
https://defence-blog.com/news/us-pilot-killed-in-su-27ub-crash-in-ukraine.html
I agree -- it means that Israel is there to train everyone else.
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