MI: Appellate Court Issues Mixed Ruling on Right to Carry at DeVos Place

Ammoland ^ | 3 December,2016 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

In March of 2016, members of Michigan Open Carry (MOC) and Michigan Gun Owners (MGO) were manning a booth they had rented in the DeVos Place Convention Center. They were openly carrying holstered pistols, which has never been against the law in Michigan, except for a small number of restricted areas.

While people with concealed carry permits may not carry a concealed firearm into a school, they may openly carry a holstered pistol in Michigan.  They can openly carry holstered pistols into the State Capitol.

On Friday, May 26, 2017, Judge Joseph Rossi of the Kent County Circuit found for Michigan Open Carry (MOC) and Michigan Gun Owners (MGO). DeVos Place appealed to the Michigan Appeals Court.

On November 27, 2018, The Michigan Appeals Court ruled the Circuit Court erred and needed to make more findings of fact. From mlive.com:

“We conclude that the trial court erred when it ruled that the concealed carry of firearms was not prohibited by statute at DeVos Place because the trial court did not make a finding about seating capacity,” the appeals panel wrote.

“The trial court found that the concealed carry and open carry of firearms was ‘normally permitted' at DeVos Place and DeVos Performance Hall. Therefore, the trial court disagreed with the CAA's statement that the open carry of firearms was ‘rarely' permitted,

[marktwain]

The appellate court never even addressed open carry in their decision.

[gibsonguy]

I personally find open carry a bit vulgar. Yes you should have the right but it freaks people out affects social situations. Concealed is better but it’s a constant battle to get it legal.

[gibsonguy]

I personally find open carry a bit vulgar. Yes you should have the right but it freaks people out affects social situations. Concealed is better but it’s a constant battle to get it legal.

[George Rand]

My right to self defense doesn’t care about your feelings of vulgarity.

[farming pharmer]

I personally find open carry a bit vulgar.

I find open carry to be a necessary exercise of my 2nd amendment rights. However, I agree that there is no tactical advantage to open carry and personally I never do it.

[Yo-Yo]

It said so in the article, but to repeat: A quirk in the wording of the Michigan Concealed Carry law states that a CPL holder cannot carry concealed in a number of areas including schools, child care centers, sports arenas, bars, places of worship (without permission), hospitals, dormitories or classrooms of universities, or entertainment facilities with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more.

DeVos Hall is an entertainment facility, so the determining factor is it's seating capacity.

What the law does allow is for CPL holders to openly carry in all of those places.

Michigan law also has an exception for those who possess an 'enhanced' CPLs, which are exclusively for former law enforcement. Michigan almost passed a law allowing anyone to apply for an enhanced CPL after taking additional training, but just as it was about to be voted on Sandy Hook happened, and the bill died.

[Jimmy The Snake]

Open carry just tells bad guys who to shoot first

[bravo whiskey]

I thought the ban on carrying, open of ccw, on K-12 property was federali law. In Michigan you can open carry in a high school?

[CurlyDave]

I personally find open carry a bit vulgar. Yes you should have the right but it freaks people out affects social situations. Concealed is better but it’s a constant battle to get it legal.

If we ever get a decision that open carry is legal everywhere, and people exercise that right, shall-issue concealed carry will soon be legal everywhere.

While I much prefer concealed, if the only choice is open or none, it will be open.

And if enough people do that, the "bad" states will soon decide that concealed is better.

[RandallFlagg]

What drives me crazy is that they keep wanting to pass more restrictions on people who have no history of committing any crimes. But, that’s how gun laws are different from any other law out there.

On a side note, I’m wondering why there are 4 holes on the side of that Kydex holster.
;-)
Love ya, Dean!

[RandallFlagg]

Citizens have been carrying in Utah schools for the last 22+ years.

I think it’s a 10th amendment thing.

[Yo-Yo]

I thought the ban on carrying, open of ccw, on K-12 property was federali law. In Michigan you can open carry in a high school?

The Federal ban of carrying weapons in schools (the Gun Free Zone Act) do not apply to those licensed by the state, if the firearm is unloaded and locked up, is part of a school-approved program, is part of a contracted service, or is by a police officer.

In the case of licensed individual, state law then prevails, and in Michigan licensed individuals are permitted to carry openly, but not concealed.

Here is a Michigan State Police letter explaining the law to other law enforcement personnel:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

[riverrunner]

For those who care.

www.opencarry.org

lots of good information there

[offduty]

If you have a CPL in Michigan, you may open carry in a school. There are some restrictions because of the Ann Arbor and Clio school board lawsuits. IIRC, the State Supreme Court gave local districts the ability to write policy restricting the carrying of any weapons on school property. I also believe this does not impact those with the enhanced CPL.

There are/where at least 37 bills in committee this year addressing the carrying of handguns in Michigan. They range from “Constitutional carry” where no permit is required to cleaning up the language of current law to address out of state certified LEO’s privileges under LEOSA.

You can bet with an incoming Democrat Governor that any loosening of gun restrictions in Michigan won’t happen.

[morphing libertarian]

open carry can provide a safer environment as evil people may be less likely to jump off when they are sure weapons are in the hands of good guys. Like the police walking around armed.

[Yo-Yo]

On a side note, I’m wondering why there are 4 holes on the side of that Kydex holster. ;-)

As you can clearly see, that holster is designed for Glock pistols. Glock pistols all have the same general shape, so often one holster can be used with several Glock models.

Those witness holes let the user know which Glock is in the holster.

Top hole filled: G26
Two holes filled: G19
Three holes filled: G17
All four holes filled: G34

;^)

[RandallFlagg]

"Huh-huh..
Holes
Filled...
Huh-huh..
Two...
Huh-huh.."

[SgtHooper]

Which, should satisfy even the libidiots!

[ridesthemiles]

I find that the Gay Pride parades & their participants are more than vulgar-—& more so each & every year.

I would rather deal with open carry that open LEWDNESS.

[ridesthemiles]

I find that the Gay Pride parades & their participants are more than vulgar-—& more so each & every year.

I would rather deal with open carry THAN open LEWDNESS.