Posted on 10/10/2019 5:58:37 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
In the hierarchy of interests, the nation of Turkey ranks higher than 'the Kurds'.
No good answer for this situation, but at least your post is thoughtful and respectful. Too much personal attack for concerned opinion here lately.
I am angry that we got sucked into Syria in the first place. President Trump wanted us out months ago but the establishment squawked that we needed more time to stage an orderly withdrawal. Time is now up. America first means not getting sucked into every war anywhere in the world just because that is what we always do.
So Faux News has the time to find a Special Forces Soldier who just happens to be in Syria and manages to setup an interview with someone working for the Kurds in 3 days?
Faux News can’t even figure out Russia, FISA or Ukraine and they have had 3 years.
Someone set this up.
“But what about the larger interests of the country and the fact that Americans have their own feelings and voted to get us out of messes like this? Should that be ignored?”
“US”
YOU are not in the “mess”. You are safe at home. It is YOUR soldiers who are in the “mess” and my guess is most of them disagree with you.
The only “interest” being served by this policy change is not “for the country”. It is for what Trump thinks is the politics of him doing it, because he said he would. And, he sad he would without even knowing what’s what and what was really going on.
Loyalty with allies in arms is an American interest.
Our work with the Kurds has been tiny, compared to South Korea, even what we still have in Japan, or Europe, or even Africa (yes, we have hundreds of special forces in Africa - 5 to 6,000 - and that’s more than in Syria). If it was a matter of saving money, there was plenty of places to cut.
No. There is one beneficiary of the new policy and it’s not Trump and it’s not you. It’s Erdogan.
Over time we seem to have taken the concept of “mission creep” to a whole new level. I think most Americans are weary of endless military engagements with nebulous objectives.
That said, I suppose an argument could be made for keeping a small force there but the problem, as always, is what starts out small is likely to expand in unanticipated ways.
You’re right, there’s no good answer. In any decision there are always pro’s and con’s. The object is to try to maximize the pro’s but be prepared to deal with changing circumstances. Then again, some problems are intractable. Those are the ones you don’t want to get stuck in.
The ME can find its own equilibrium.
That would never occur with us there.
Leftists live in a state of conflicting emotions vs laws vs what's right at all times. They long ago chose their ideology over laws. Some still have a conscious and at some level they know what is right or wrong but they still choose ideology over everything else. Even family.
Neah. It makes perfect sense.
He’s trained the Kurds and fought along side them. It is inevitable that he has bonded with them. He wouldn’t be human if he didn’t.
But he needs to look at the bigger picture (geez, I hate that term). How much more money and how many more lives are enough to help the Kurds? How many more long term enemies do we need to make for the US to get them their own country?
Give the Kurds a pallet of $100 dollar bills, any equipment we’re leaving behind, and letter of introduction to the Sov, er, Russians. Syria is a Russian client state and Assad needs allies. If they swear fealty to him they might be able to get a good deal out it.
It is not America’s responsibility to go around the world fighting everybody else’s battles for them and cleaning up everybody else’s messes for them.
I’ve got an idea. Since the Middle East is right next to Europe and since Europe needs Middle Eastern oil and gas while America doesn’t, let’s let the Yurps deal with the Middle East’s problems for a change. They can deploy their awesome soft power and show us all how to solve problems in a smarter, more sophisticated and more civilized way like they’re always telling us they could. OK. Show us Yurps!
Yes. My concern has always and only been that the full assessment of 'cons' has not been given consideration.
The pro of pulling out, and its a very powerful one, is no more loss of American life TODAY. I worry about tomorrow.
A few of the cons, and they should not be taken lightly, include
1) the fact that our strategy in dealing with terrorism and other threats to national interests has come to depend on partnerships. Every time we leave partners in the lurch, we make it more difficult to convince anyone we are reliable partners.
2) Intel. Nothing, no amount of surveillance or technology, beats having a presence, even a small one, on the ground, talking with locals, understanding the politics, knowing who should or should not get support, and who to trust should we need to step back in. You have to have relationships to maintain this, and that is exactly the purpose of SF.
3) Its already being reported that ISIS prisoners are getting set free or freeing themselves because our former partners, the Kurds, in the wake of our withdrawal, have lowered the priority of this to focus on fighting off the Turks. So another hard won battle gone to waste, similar to when Obama pulled out of Iraq. Those fighters WILL kill again, either in Iraq, or in Europe, or who knows where.
Frankly, peace has a price (in lives and treasure) for maintenance which is far lower than the price of achieving it. If we don't pay the maintenance price, we will eventually pay the larger war price. The footprint of advisors that was there was small, smaller than what still remains in Afghanistan today. I would argue that pulling out of Afghanistan would have made more sense strategically than abandoning the Kurds.
These people need to tone it down a bit.
There were 25-30 SF people in the area. They are many miles from the main US facilities.
These guys are not going to stop the full Turkish army. And there is no way that we are going to fire on a NATO ally.
So, these people need to stick the string back up, Rodeo Up, and do what they are told. War sucks. We never should have been there. And now we are leaving. We will witness the animals that inhabit the middle east in their natural habitat.
So let me get this straight. Obama sends troops into this mess and it was only to last 30 to 90 days if my memory is correct. Here we are 7+ years later and we have troops and we are spending US tax dollars to police the mess. Why are we still there?
Also we have air bases in Turkey what is to happen there and to the servicemen/woman there? Turkey is NATO correct? Why has there not been a vote by the NATO nations to have Turkey to stand down?
This S Show is only going to get US soldiers killed and I do not support that in the form of some bastardized political police action specially started by the former Admin.
I think Trump is right we need to get clear and see who our allies really are and so far I don’t see any.
Trump has made it clear that he feels the US has been ensnared in too many foreign wars and he promised to change that (e.g., “I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary, and I mean absolutely necessary, and will only do so if we have a plan for victory with a capital V”.) He has reiterated this same theme over and over again. The American people voted for him as the 45th president.
You will have your opportunity to vote for someone else in one year’s time.
If we stop supplying ISIS with warfighting material, my guess is they will spend time beheading each other.
We have our oil.
If I were perfectly honest, I would say...”I don’t care.”
I am tired of sending my friends and family over there for a year at a time.
We need to declare war the old fashioned way.
We need mobilize the old fashioned way.
We need to define victory, the old fashioned way.
We need to destroy our enemies, and come home.
We play at war...with the lives of my friend and family.
Its not necessary. And its not right.
3) Its already being reported that ISIS prisoners are getting set free or freeing themselves because our former partners, the Kurds, in the wake of our withdrawal, have lowered the priority of this to focus on fighting off the Turks. So another hard won battle gone to waste, similar to when Obama pulled out of Iraq. Those fighters WILL kill again, either in Iraq, or in Europe, or who knows where.
Frankly, peace has a price (in lives and treasure) for maintenance which is far lower than the price of achieving it
Apparently, the Kurds have a “price” too if they are already releasing ISIS fighters. Pay us or we release the terrorists. That’s blackmail. Genuine allies don’t behave like that. Good riddance to them.
Additionally, One of the lessons of WWI that was fortunately learned in WWII is that if you fight, win, and leave, you will be back sooner than you think. We applied that to both Europe and Japan after WWII but a certain Obama admin ignored it in Iraq spawning ISIS and our current dilemma. Whether you think going into Iraq was right or wrong, we went in, fought, won, and subsequently left. That is the strategy you prescribe, but what did it leave? It left a spawning ground for future 911's.
I don't like to see any of our brave, fine volunteers getting killed overseas, but Americans do have short memories when it comes to history lessons.
The kurds, who were under an umbrella of US protection, are now fighting the Turks to stay alive. That is not extortion. That is just basic survival instinct.
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