Sex, torture and erotic electrification in America's 'gay' churches

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, July 18, 2002 | By Stephen Bennett

[JohnHuang2]

Thursday, July 18, 2002

Quote of the Day posted by Travis McGee

[WyldKard]

Okay, a few things come to mind:

Were there any kids at any of these workshops? If not, then I really don't have any problem with what consenting adults want to do with each other, no matter how icky I may personally find a lot of it. (Fisting? Ick!!).

I don't think a church is a terribly proper place for this sort of thing, but if the membership of this church doesn't mind, then so be it. Those that don't like it should *certainly* go elsewhere. It didn't seem to me like the Church itself was sponsering this stuff, just allowing their space to be used.

I don't seem to remember the Bible complaining about dripping wax on ones partner, or flogging them, and don't really understand what business it is of the authors to crab about this sort of thing. It sounds more like his problem is with anything that isn't missionary style sex. Like I said, if there were kids that were being made to go to these things, or if they were doing this stuff WAY OUT i the public, I could totally understand and support the outrage.

Otherwise, to me, this guy comes off as a Socialist Theocrat that wants to pass more laws telling us what we can and can not do in the privacy of our own bedrooms. What's next, a branch of the Ministry of Peace...er...Homeland Security, that busts down doors if you're reported giving the missus a little spanking, or getting a little head?

[RightWinger]

I guess this shows why homosexuality is perverted sexual behavior and why we don't want our schools teaching our children that it's perfectly acceptable.

[F16Fighter]

Congratulations. Yours is one of the most idiotic posts I have ever seen at FR.

You may want to check in with the duty nurse soon for your medication.

[mhking]

I don't seem to remember the Bible complaining about dripping wax on ones partner, or flogging them, and don't really understand what business it is of the authors to crab about this sort of thing.

I suppose the section on Sodom and Gomorrah was torn out of your Bible, yes?

While these "consenting adults" certainly have the right to engage in whatever debauchery they want to (as long as they aren't doing in anyone else while they do it -- ewwww!), to do it in any sort of "church" really does not sit right with me.

WyldKard, how would you feel if goats were being sacrificed for some bizarre "ritual sacrifice" of pre-teen virgins tied to some form of Satanic worship in the rectory of your friendly, neighborhood Catholic church? Unless you have the emotional output of a rock, it probably wouldn't sit right with you. This is nothing different.

This sounds like a group of folks who are using the term "church" in order to qualify for tax exempt status for their form of filth. It's a defilement of what most hold sacred, and should be stopped.

[WyldKard]

Congratulations. Yours is one of the most idiotic posts I have ever seen at FR.

Hmmm...I tell you what, instead of resorting to character assassination and personal attacks, maybe you could do us all a favor, and explain WHY it's an idiotic post? That is why this is called a "debate" forum. If you need a definition of the word, I would be happy to supply you with it.

Oh, I forgot, it's much easier to do a pithy, one-liner "drive by posting" against people who dare to think even slightly different from you. You must have learned how to "debate" from the folks over at Democratic Underground...

[F16Fighter]

Congratulations on the second most idiotic post I have ever seen at FR...

Tell the duty nurse to double up on your med.

[WyldKard]

I suppose the section on Sodom and Gomorrah was torn out of your Bible, yes?

The Bible says the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were dripping hot wax on each other, flogging each other, and zapping each other with electricity? Wow! I MUST have missed that part. Please point it out, because *that* CERTAINLY must have been ripped out of any copy of the Bible *I* have ever seen. It sounds way better than any of the erotica in the Song of Solomon! :)

While these "consenting adults" certainly have the right to engage in whatever debauchery they want to (as long as they aren't doing in anyone else while they do it -- ewwww!), to do it in any sort of "church" really does not sit right with me.

It doesn't sit right with me, and I stated as much previously. Unfortunately, a Church has a right to do what it wants, and the only people who can tell it otherwise are the people who make up the Church. If you can't get the Church you attend to stop supporting stuff (either through direct sponsership, or by letting their facilities be used) you don't like, then you have to vote with your feet, and find a new place to go...

WyldKard, how would you feel if goats were being sacrificed for some bizarre "ritual sacrifice" of pre-teen virgins tied to some form of Satanic worship in the rectory of your friendly, neighborhood Catholic church? Unless you have the emotional output of a rock, it probably wouldn't sit right with you. This is nothing different.

Your statement is a little confusing. Are they ONLY sacrificing goats, or are they sacrificing both goats and children? First off, in BOTH possible examples, this is a direct church activity that is obviously being sponsered by said church. In his article, the author never says if the MCC directly sponsered this stuff, or merely let the groups use their space. Trust me, you MUST know churchs allow groups not affiliated with them to use their space. My monthly Unreal Tournament LAN party group meets at the local Methodist church, for instance, but we never get anything more than the use of the space.

If all they are doing is sacrificing goats, then I would be highly disturbed, and would want people to KNOW it's going on so they could act as they feel appropraite, but if all they are doing is killing animals, I don't think any real legal action should be brought against them. The people of the Church need to vote with their feet.

If they are killing children....well DUH!!! Of course one would want it shut down immediately, and the sickos involved brought to justice. You can't even begin to compare killing children to a couple of consenting adults spanking each other, for crying out loud.

This sounds like a group of folks who are using the term "church" in order to qualify for tax exempt status for their form of filth. It's a defilement of what most hold sacred, and should be stopped.

Once again, I'd like to know: Does the Church activly sponser this, or just let the people use their space? If it was the former, I would be more inclined to agree with you. Either way you are more than welcome to protest what they do (And God knows, yes, people abuse religion for tax reasons all the time. Just look at those nutcase Scientologists!), but right now, I don't see anything legally wrong with these people do, no matter how I personally feel about some of this sick stuff they are doing. The sad part about the Constitution, and Constitutional freedoms is you have to take the good with the bad. You have to take the hate speech spewed by the Neo-Nazi on the corner along with the religious gospel being preached on that same street corner. (Although the Liberals seem to be quickly finding ways to ban BOTH forms of free speech...) I think these quotes sum it up best:

The only freedom which counts is the freedom to do what some other people think to be wrong. There is no point in demanding freedom to do that which all will applaud. All the so-called liberties or rights are things which have to be asserted against others who claim that if such things are to be allowed their own rights are infringed or their own liberties threatened. This is always true, even when we speak of the freedom to worship, of the right of free speech or association, or of public assembly. If we are to allow freedoms at all there will constantly be complaints that either the liberty itself or the way in which it is exercised is being abused, and, if it is a genuine freedom, these complaints will often be justified. There is no way of having a free society in which there is not abuse. Abuse is the very hallmark of liberty.

-- Lord Hailsham

[WyldKard]

Mmmhmm..yes...whatever.

Run along, little boy, us adults are trying to have an actual debate here. If you can't be bothered to try and formulate an effective argument past "Wah! You're a doo doo head!" then please don't bother. Thanks!

[SkyPilot]

Oh, I forgot, it's much easier to do a pithy, one-liner "drive by posting" against people who dare to think even slightly different from you.

Here is mine to you and your twisted sense of morality, but I didn't write it.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Proverbs 26:4"

[Jorge]

I don't seem to remember the Bible complaining about dripping wax on ones partner, or flogging them, and don't really understand what business it is of the authors to crab about this sort of thing.

Jesus made a whip and drove the money changers out of the Temple in anger, you really think He'd be OK with the sort of sick sexual workshops we see above, in the church?

[WyldKard]

Here is mine to you and your twisted sense of morality, but I didn't write it.

Okay, well now I'm geniunely curious. What about my morality do you find "twisted"? I seem to have said thus far that I'm not terribly comfortable with these sorts of things going on at a church, but that it's up to the members of the Church to vote with their feet and voices about this sort of thing. You believe it's morally twisted for members of a Church to have a say in what goes on AT their church?

I also said that I find a lot of this stuff personally a turn-off, but that consenting adults have a right to do whatever they want, as long as there weren't any kids being involved in these workshops. You find the thought of consenting adults spanking each other in the privacy of their own bedrooms, or a gathering spot that is adults only to be "morally twisted"? Boy, I hope you've never had sex other than in the missionary position then.

So what is your problem with me, exactly? Was it because I didn't suggest that God immediately strike these people dead?

[WyldKard]

Jesus made a whip and drove the money changers out of the Temple in anger, you really think He'd be OK with the sort of sick sexual workshops we see above, in the church?

I don't think he'd be terribly happy with Bingo in the church either, to be honest. Or the fact that a group I belong to plays Unreal Tournament in one of the classrooms, on the third Saturday of every week. Yet, the Church is allowing these things. If you don't support it, then tell your Church you don't support it. If you can't get them to listen, then attend another Church. I do see where you are coming from, however. The impression I get from the article, however, is that the author of the piece has problems with any of these acts happening ANYWHERE for ANY REASON (like when he makes unrelated toss off lines like "Much of this information is available on the Internet!"). I have a feeling he'd be pissed off if these workshops were being held in a secular space, or in the privacy of peoples homes. If that's not the case, and his only TRUE beef is because its in a church, then I have less of a problem with the article.

It seems to me Churches are going to run themselves they way they are going to run themselves, and the only thing you can do is leave if you don't support what they do. After all, won't God eventually be the one to punish them if said Church displeases him?

[Alouette]

Many of the Roman pagan temples were also brothels, so I don't see any difference between the MCC and pagan Rome.

[DainBramage]

Tell us a little about your parents.

[WyldKard]

Many of the Roman pagan temples were also brothels, so I don't see any difference between the MCC and pagan Rome.

Well, that depends if any actual sexual acts (penetrative intercourse of some kind, in this case) are going on. It seems to me, according to the article that these people are at least being decent enough not to go that far. (I HOPE).

If you really want to get mad over something like this, get mad at whats happened here in MA with "FistGate", where they were teaching this stuff to MINORS in the classroom. Now THAT is wrong....

[The Bard]

...Never forget, we need to always love the sinner, yet we can hate the sin.

You know, that is actually NOT in the Bibile..... But there are several instructions by Jesus for us to JUDGE RIGHTOUSLY!

[WKB]

To: WyldKard
Congratulations. Yours is one of the most idiotic posts I have ever seen at FR.
You may want to check in with the duty nurse soon for your medication.

AMEN BROTHER

[peteram]

I don't seem to remember the Bible complaining about dripping wax on ones partner, or flogging them, and don't really understand what business it is of the authors to crab about this sort of thing.

While this may not be specifically addressed in the Bible, what the Christian church promotes is a respect for human life and its dignity. Many Christians believe that this type of conduct serves to debase and humiliate the human spirit.

Taking it another step, there is nothing more that satan would love than to debase and diminish the human spirit, through whatever means (homosexuality or others). For a person to allow themselves to experience this type of lifestyle would result in them being in bondage (both spriritually and literally) to this and to the people that promote it.

I believe this is what the author was trying to point out. As Christians, we are in a spiritual war with the percieved evils that promote this type of conduct. Of course, the bottom line is that God gives all of us free will to choose the life we lead. If that's your thing, then go ahead and do it. But as Christians, it's incumbent upon us to do what we can to discourage it and show these folks a better way.

[peteram]

Otherwise, to me, this guy comes off as a Socialist Theocrat that wants to pass more laws telling us what we can and can not

I think the main thing that the author was really upset about was the fact that this "church" was operating under the name of the Lord Jesus, and that this is major blasphemy.

Like you, I agree that if these people want to exert their free will and live like this, fine. But I draw the line at using the Lord's name to promote it.