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Neutrinos are hard to detect, that is, rarealy detected, but some of the extra dimensions may be significantly larger than an atom.

We know this, anyway: there are things we don't know, things we know we don't know, and things we don't know we don't know.

1 posted on 05/20/2003 9:56:24 AM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
"The only thing we know for sure is... Nobody knows"
-- Eeyore.
2 posted on 05/20/2003 9:59:44 AM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: Gary Boldwater
Pink Matter Alert!
3 posted on 05/20/2003 10:01:10 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: RightWhale
"We named it Kaluza-Klein dark matter

They need to find another physicist whose last name started with 'K'. That way it could be called KKK dark matter, and from that renewed impetus for a) accusations that physics is racist; and b) calls for intergalactic reparations.

4 posted on 05/20/2003 10:03:25 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: RightWhale
things we don't know we don't know...

And, of course, things we don't know we know. If there is actually a discovery to be made, it will probably be obvious in retrospect....

5 posted on 05/20/2003 10:06:30 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: RightWhale
SPOTREP-SCIENCE
6 posted on 05/20/2003 10:06:59 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: RightWhale
"What is more, the positron signal is rather unique for Kaluza-Klein dark matter and may thus provide the first evidence of extra dimensions."

My wife and I were just talking at dinner the other night about whether Kaluza-Klein dark matter would provide evidence of extra dimensions...but we could never resolve the problem - so decided to go in the den and watch "The Bachelor". :o)
8 posted on 05/20/2003 10:12:02 AM PDT by Rhetorical pi2
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To: RightWhale
I have a 'dark' suspicion that the 'dark matter' is fudge.
13 posted on 05/20/2003 11:03:44 AM PDT by Grut
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To: RightWhale; RadioAstronomer; Physicist
Comments on this one gentlemen?
15 posted on 05/20/2003 1:00:09 PM PDT by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat)
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To: RightWhale
"We're suggesting that the dark matter may be due to extra dimensions."

For a minute I thought they were exploring inside the minds of the Florida Supreme Court.

16 posted on 05/20/2003 1:01:54 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: RightWhale
If correct, the scientists' theory may lead to the discovery of the first concrete evidence of dark matter, an invisible substance that may comprise as much as 30 percent of the universe. Dark matter has never yet been directly or indirectly observed.

I thought the percentage was much higher, like 70% to 90%.

Is this 30% figure the current estimate?

19 posted on 05/20/2003 1:09:07 PM PDT by jimt
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To: RightWhale
The South Pole device, known as the Antarctic Muon Neutrino Detector Array, or AMANDA, is designed to detect particles with no electrical charge and no mass created in massive cosmic events such as supernovas.

Okay now, are they changing their minds again, or are they just out of the loop?

21 posted on 05/20/2003 1:30:24 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: RightWhale
What about white matter and clear matter??? Don't any of these scientists have any gray matter?!?!? Do I have to figure this all out by myself again???
23 posted on 05/20/2003 1:50:23 PM PDT by Paco
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To: RightWhale
According to one alternative theory, these additional dimensions might be curled up into a ball so small -- significantly smaller than atoms -- that they are difficult or impossible to observe.

Be careful with that. If you drop it, we'll never find it again...

27 posted on 05/20/2003 3:22:14 PM PDT by farmguy
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To: RightWhale
I have trouble understanding a lot of things I can see. I'm supposed to understand things I can't see?

I'll think about that tomorrow.

30 posted on 05/20/2003 3:42:25 PM PDT by lonestar (Don't mess with Texans)
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To: RightWhale
We know this, anyway: there are things we don't know, things we know we don't know, and things we don't know we don't know.

Well, whaddya know!

36 posted on 05/20/2003 4:07:55 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (There be no shelter here; the front line is everywhere!)
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To: RightWhale
Physical Review Focus
Detecting Dark Dimensions

Dark matter arising from extra spatial dimensions could be detected with existing or future experiments, according to the 18 November print issue of PRL. If an additional dimension were hidden in the right way, heavier replicas of the known particles might traverse space and account for the mysterious "dark" component of the Universe's mass. Detecting the unique particles would potentially confirm the existence of extra dimensions and solve at least part of the dark matter riddle.

Researchers think that 30% of the Universe's mass is made up of unknown particles that are invisible to telescopes but have gravitational effects on galaxies. Potential culprits called weakly-interacting massive particles (WIMPs) come from proposed extensions to the standard model of particle physics, such as supersymmetry and extra-dimensional theories. To verify the theories, searches for some of these particles look to space, because particle accelerators are too weak to produce them. But the big bang should have produced every particle. "Maybe the Universe made them for us and they're floating around out there and are dark matter," says Jonathan Feng of the University of California at Irvine. "Now the [difficulty] is you have to find them."

Kaluza-Klein particles are named for the two theorists who first proposed that extra dimensions could be "curled up" to a size too small for us to notice them. In the simplest case, these particles would be much like those of the standard model, but would move through four spatial dimensions instead of three. Their momentum along the fourth dimension would appear as additional mass in three dimensions, so we would observe heavy photons or heavy electrons, for example. The smaller the extra dimension, the greater the mass.

Now Feng and his colleagues have found that Kaluza-Klein particles would heat up or ionize a block of material such as germanium at rates comparable to other dark matter candidate particles. They could also annihilate each other in space, creating showers of ordinary particles. The researchers calculated that Kaluza-Klein dark matter would generate a unique, sharp positron signal, distinguishing it from the neutralinos of supersymmetry. Because dark matter feels the gravitational force, it would be drawn toward the sun's large mass and lead to an excess of neutrino and muon showers from the sun's direction. The AMANDA neutrino detector, buried within the Antarctic ice, or the Alpha-Magnetic Spectrometer (AMS), an antimatter detector scheduled to fly on the International Space Station in late 2005, could hunt out these signals.

"Kaluza-Klein dark matter is definitely worth looking for with AMS," says Kate Scholberg of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, who works on the detector project. "The indirect signature would be quite dramatic for some of the possible parameters they discuss." She adds that detecting and distinguishing Kaluza-Klein and supersymmetric dark matter would depend strongly on how nature actually behaves, but coming up empty wouldn't rule them out, just constrain their possible characteristics.

--JR Minkel

Kaluza-Klein Dark Matter
Hsin-Chia Cheng, Jonathan L. Feng, and Konstantin T. Matchev
Phys. Rev. Lett. 89, 211301
(issue of 18 November 2002)

PDF file of the original letter is linked at the above page but is available only to subscribers or for a fee.

38 posted on 05/20/2003 7:26:19 PM PDT by concentric circles
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To: RightWhale
We know this, anyway: there are things we don't know, things we know we don't know, and things we don't know we don't know.

And, of course, as Heisenberg showed: There are things that are unknowable.

I've given this dark matter/extra dimensions/time conundrum quite a bit of thought, research and pondering.

It seems to me that 'time' (as in the cause/effect, before/after human construct) only exists inside the head of the observer. We manufacture time and causality as a survival instinct synonymous with 'self-awareness'.

The greater universe certainly doesn't follow our construct, thus the 'dark matter' is everything that is not the 'present'. It has both mass and quantum energy, but is impenetrable to us in our relative 'time-space'.

In 'non-time' space, imagine a small 'cube' of space. 'Now' there is nothing in it, it is space. Before, maybe there was stuff in it. Maybe there will be stuff in it later. All those 'potentialities' of no stuff/stuff in it carry weight and energy because they all exist at once. Our tiny 'conscious 'now-filter'' only shows us a time-slice of those potentialities (the energy of probability) and then fills in the rest of the story like our minds fill in the rest of a sliver moon.

40 posted on 05/20/2003 7:50:15 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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