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Around Scotland for Our Lady
TFP ^ | Paul Folley

Posted on 08/27/2005 10:29:51 PM PDT by Coleus

Students from St. Louis de Montfort Acadmeny pose for a picture in front of Dunnottar Castle, on the east coast of Scotland.

Around Scotland for
Our Lady


by Paul Folley

Until recently, it would have been rash to travel around staunchly Presbyterian Scotland handing out fliers about Our Lady. However, times have changed and what the eight of us, consisting of myself and seven American high school students from the TFP-staffed Saint Louis de Montfort Academy in Pennsylvania, proposed to do for three weeks in June 2005 was precisely that. We would start in Glasgow and work east to Edinburgh, and then north to Inverness.

Glasgow is Scotland’s largest city. It grew exponentially during the Industrial Revolution as waves of impoverished Irish immigrants sought work in the mines and factories. This made Glasgow the most Catholic city in Scotland and a good place to start.

As expected, the reception was excellent. We quickly saw how distributing our literature on the street allowed us to meet and talk with lapsed Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, Jews and agnostics about Our Lady. Often the conversation turned to the Catholic Church and its teachings, and everyone seemed interested, curious, supportive, or, occasionally, antagonistic.

Venerating the relics of the Apostle St. Andrew, patron of Scotland.

While in Edinburgh, we venerated Saint Andrew’s relics in Saint Mary’s Cathedral. In the Middle Ages the Scots asked the pope for a patron saint. He named Saint Andrew, whose bones were sent to Scotland and were received amid great enthusiasm and rejoicing. Saint Andrew’s, a cathedral city, with Scotland’s most important university, grew up around the relics. Sadly, during the so-called Reformation, mobs of enraged Presbyterians ransacked the shrine and scattered the relics. Fortunately, some fragments were saved and today are available for veneration in Edinburgh’s cathedral.

The reception in Glasgow, Scotland's most Catholic city, was excellent.

After Edinburgh, we traveled to Dundee to visit Arbroath Abbey, a once great monastery famous throughout Europe. It was poignant to see this great place reduced to total ruin. The only part still intact is the fourteenth-century sacristy, a beautiful Gothic room with very high ceilings. We sang the Little Office of Our Lady in the room, and the acoustics were awesome! The Historic Scotland staff in charge of the site confirmed this was the first time since the “Reformation” that the Office was prayed at Arbroath Abbey.

It was a strange feeling to see the wheel of history turning before our eyes. We left Dundee wondering when the magnificent Arbroath Abbey might be restored, or when even more magnificent places will be built in its stead. That day will come when the Scots return to the Church. Nobody can say for sure exactly when, but it is our hope that this modest effort to promote devotion to Our Lady in Scotland is a small step in that direction.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: arbroathabbey; dundee; edinburgh; glasgow; ourlady; scotland; standrew; tfp

1 posted on 08/27/2005 10:29:55 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: Coleus; Maeve; sockmonkey; Romulus
Oh this is magnificent! Bless these young TFP men for their mission on behalf of Our Lady. I have prayed the Rosary in that very Abbey where they sang the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I know some people have a terrible reaction to TFP but I say more power to young men like this who are willing to travel through contemporary non-Christian Scotland bearing witness to Christ and the Blessed Mother of God.

And bless you, Coleus, for posting it.

2 posted on 08/27/2005 10:38:15 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: Pyro7480; american colleen; Desdemona; NYer; sandyeggo; AnAmericanMother

ping


3 posted on 08/27/2005 10:39:24 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: Siobhan; Coleus
I know some people have a terrible reaction to TFP

Yeah, they are a pretty controversial group. Catholics to the "left" (conservative, post-Vatican 2 Mass attendees) and the "right" (traditionalists) of them have been critical of them, for various reasons. They've been accused of being a cult; of making their founder, Dr. Plinio, an idol; and of being too "gung-ho" about Fatima. Liberal Catholics, and leftists in general certainly don't like them. Overall, however, I have a positive opinion of them. A couple members of the TFP attend my parish in DC for the Traditional Latin Mass. They're nice guys.

4 posted on 08/27/2005 10:52:57 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("And the second is like to this: 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.'" (Matthew 22: 39))
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To: Pyro7480

It would be wonderful if other young men would take up this model for bringing the Catholic Truth back to Scotland. Most Scots really have no commitment to Protestantism at all.


5 posted on 08/27/2005 10:59:50 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: Coleus; Pyro7480; NYer; Maeve
My favourite working Catholic Abbey in Scotland:

Pluscarden Abbey

6 posted on 08/27/2005 11:02:38 PM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: Siobhan
Marian Horvat: The "Nice Girl" of Integrism

Marian Horvat

By A. Gerard Nordskoven

Watching a Catholic community autodestruct is wrenching. The Society for Tradition, Family & Property, or TFP, is eating Kansas City alive. It is a scenario played out all over the world. TFP is an all-male secret society promoting a "higher" calling than the priesthood, the warrior-monk. TFP is a cold-blooded vocation killer. Not one priest has arisen from their "conservative" formation of young men anywhere in its international ranks since its founding in the early sixties. None. One of TFP's slickest Screwtapes has been a woman, Marian Horvat. Horvat, president of the TFP's California offshoot, Tradition in Action, distinguished herself as one of four collaborating signatories to "We Resist You to the Face," a manifesto for Catholic schism. Before that, Horvat's duties were in the heartland, and more along the line of "We Stab You in the Back" with the quiet destruction of the faithful. She's a "nice girl", well-spoken and polite. And she gave TFP and their ideas entré into nice families. The Catholic scholars at her alma mater, K.U., saw through the Horvat family obsession with TFP and rejected their overtures to infiltrate the Integrated Humanities Program, a veritable incubator for clerics and other religious. Others have not been so discerning. Pious boys exploring their calling have hardened into caustic snobs who are taught by TFP recruiters to despise their parents as "the fountain of my revolution."

The simplest mystery of Judeo-Christianity is election. Yet it is almost unfathomable that the Most High chooses to grace souls and peoples for reasons unknown to man. The antithesis of election, indeed a tenet of Babylonian Mystery Religions (as is secrecy), is elitism. This is man exalting himself above other men. We were warned. The Lord reviled the people's desire for a king to rule over them, and told of their inevitable exploitation. Hindu elitism is writ in the squalor of a rigid caste system. The unholy marriage of elitism and Catholicity was fabricated in TFP founder Plinio's book, The Nobility and Traditional Elites. It was offered for sale after the Latin Mass approved by the KCMO Bishop. $50.00 was the penance exacted for presuming to be a noble, elite Catholic. But the young salesmen were friends of Marian, glowingly praised in the tome. And she was smart, a K.U. teaching assistant who hammered a journalism degree into a doctorate in Medieval History.

Few read the lavishly illustrated book, consigning it to the coffee table. In Nobility, the race and blood cults condemned by Piux XII are resurrected in his own words, spin doctored to fit TFP's agenda. Pius XII's flattering pleas to the nobility of Italy for funds to feed the starving during World War II are transformed into support for TFP's militant monarchists. Published two years before Plinio's death, Marian Horvat garnered high honors from the author for her assistance. That's saying a lot. Plinio Correa de Oliveira was a self-styled demigod, described reflexively in a TFP litany to his mother, Dona Lucilia, as the "Axiological Principle," or First Cause, a divinity. That's the secret side of TFP. In Plinio's book, the elite are defined as bluebloods, and as "professors" like himself and Marian. It is a predatory philosophy of NON SERVIAM, like the fictional spaceman's cookbook, "How to Serve Man." Horvat's brother adds information for the American audience. The elite of America were the Southern slaveholder in general, and genetic marvels like Robert E. Lee in specific. Here is the race and blood cult American-style.

Priests do not fit into the TFP schema. They serve. They are poor. They don't rule countries. The colorful "scroll" centerfold in Nobility proclaims "the preferential option for the nobility." John Paul II's "preferential option for the poor" is directly contradicted. That's refreshing. There can be no question whose side they are on. The schismatic heraldry of "We Resist You to the Face" was just a flourish on a split with the Servant of Servants started years before. TFP disdains the priesthood, predicting it's obsolescence. No priests, no Eucharist. Wormwood, be advised. Horvat's crocodile tears for lost vocations as inspiring "We Resist You to the Face" are hypocritical. Styling herself a latter day Joan of Arc, Horvat is a free agent serving only demigod Plinio and the Ten Kings of the Antichrist with no regard for prelates unless they are useful as camouflage for TFP, or Tradition in Action, or the America Needs Fatima cash cow. Radical materialism is the name of the game and another hallmark of Babylonian Mystery Religions. That's the philosophical basis for Communism, so it is no surprise that K.U.'s long-time campus Communist converted to Horvat's brand of Catholicism. One gets all the exploitation without any of the guilt. The poor are solicited by mail for a dollar a day, and the wealthy get quietly approached for donations of homes, large sums of money, and farms, not to mention the entrustment of children. Horvat guided the formation of young women in her home-school Sodality, and the children of "traditional" Catholics in other educational venues.

Marian Horvat is an apt pupil of TFP's techniques, and ingratiates herself to the wealthy, well-educated and powerful only. Peasants are the enemy, and perhaps too reminiscent of her blue-collar background. Catholic scholars cotton to her, and she sailed her pirate ship under their colors whenever possible. Alice Von Hildebrand was shamefully used in discussions aired on EWTN. She slipped one over on the elderly philosopher by dropping Plinio's name into the mix. EWTN got wind of it and axed the "Feminity and Feminism" series. But this virago is far from feminine. Horvat's favorite ploy for testing the mettle of protegés at the family compound was to invite them over and release their snapping, snarling German Shephards. Some left, some signed on to continue undermining the Catholic community in her stead. Horvat came razor close to imposing a TFP school on Kansas City residents under the banner of a conservative Catholic education. The monied Texas woman Horvat talked into bankrolling the venture got wind of her unseemly connections and mercifully withdrew.

Watch for this coiling snake of Babylonian cast, and beg the Blessed Virgin to have bare feet ready to crush its head. Postcards may be found in the back of church from "America Needs Fatima." One response and it is virtually impossible to be free from TFP's dunning direct mail solicitation. And the Boys from Brazil are very appealing as they march like Medieval militants in their red capes, inserting themselves at the head of pro-life rallies, or setting up bookstalls at Catholic conferences, usually without permission. They are spoiling for a fight, and it is not with the forces of evil for which they claim they need lots of cash. It is with the Magisterium, in that they are already condemned by the Brazilian bishops conference, their home country. It is with Peter, as "We Resist You to the Face" obsequiously declares. It is with God, as blithely breaking the first command to honor no false gods. That's Plinio, who did not arise from the dead as he prophesied of himself. And do watch out for nice girls in pearls

.-----Opinion piece (c) A. Gerard Nordskoven, 2001. All Rights Reserved.

*TFP is spiritually toxic.

7 posted on 08/28/2005 3:42:56 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: Siobhan

http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/storia/gb14.htm


8 posted on 08/28/2005 3:45:20 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

Talk about cold water in your face! Wow. Not one priest? Mercy.


9 posted on 08/28/2005 3:50:36 AM PDT by Siobhan ("Whenever you come to save Rome, make all the noise you want." -- Pius XII)
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To: Siobhan
Ms Horvat on our new Pope

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has done enough and said enough as Benedict XVI to quash the optimism of conservative and traditionalist Catholics. I hope a spirit of objective analysis will set in soon. As the maxim says, undeserved praise is scandal in disguise

* Yes, they are kooks of the first order

10 posted on 08/28/2005 6:27:09 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m007rpRatzingerTrueColors_May05.shtml


11 posted on 08/28/2005 6:27:41 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Maid Marian on Mother Theresa

So what do we have? Faulty notions of God and love. A miracle shrouded in doubt. A process put on fast-track by a Pope who has himself championed the wrong notion of theological pluralism. This concept implies admittance that there is not just one Revelation and one uniform interpretation of it, as the Catholic Church has always taught, but that the “revelations” and false interpretations of other religions would also be correct.

It certainly leads one to seriously suspect that the intention of John Paul II was not just to beatify a person, in this case, Mother Teresa, but to “canonize” the post-Conciliar progressivist thinking on ecumenism and universal salvation that she adhered to.

This beatification also raises suspicions about others, such as that of John XXIII, whose “incorrupt” body was demonstrated to be preserved by scientific means, and who always supported the Modernist errors. One can’t help but wonder what has happened: Has the Catholic Faith changed, or does a person no longer need to profess it to be beatified?

*Maid Marian is a heretical schismatic who uses her time to trash the Magisterium.

Her buddy in arms, Atila Guimaeres is worse

12 posted on 08/28/2005 6:45:07 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic
Bird’s Eye View of the News

Atila Sinke Guimarães

THE CANONIZATION OF WOJTYLA, THE MORAL-FREE POPE - One of the first declarations of Pope Ratzinger was that Karol Wojtyla would be set on a fast track toward canonization. On May 13, Ratzinger announced he had dispensed with rules that normally impose a five-year waiting period before beatification can even start. Actually, he was just repeating what he had already stated before he was chosen Pontiff on the eve of the conclave.

Given the favorable hullabaloo that the media raised over the death of John Paul II, Ratzinger’s comment on the eve of the conclave about speeding up the process of JPII can easily be seen as a smart campaign maneuver to attain the papacy. His later announcement of a new track for sainthood especially designed for Wojtyla can also be understood as a way to make himself appear more appealing to public opinion, which has never found him so. He places himself under the umbrella of Wojtyla's popularity.

So, regarding politics and tactics, Ratzinger has acted, and continues to act, as a politician persuing his own interest. Machiavelli would have advised the same thing. This kind of “divinization” of close friends or relatives for political advantages was not rare in the decadent Roman Empire. For example, the emperor Caracalla made his brother Geta, whom he had murdered, a god.

...

It is my opinion that the infallibility linked to the previous processes also vanished. I think that no one is obliged to believe that all these new “saints” and “blesseds” are really such.

...

In fact, the selection of saints that pleased Wojtyla was far from being perfect. He decreed that modernists like Frederic Ozanan and Angelo Roncalli be raised to the glory of the altars. He championed existentialists like Edith Stein and religious indifferentists like Mother Teresa, along with others whose orthodoxy of thought and heroic practice of virtues are widely open to discussion.

* Horvat and Guimaeres are hateful schismatics who spread enmity and division.

Are they Traditional Catholics?

Please...

13 posted on 08/28/2005 6:50:39 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

I suppose I am the natural person to answer your post. My name is John Horvat, a TFP member and Marian is my sister. If anyone is close to the actual facts, it is me.

I could go into each sentence and provide some kind of reply. However, I think it better to make some general observations and then if you want some clarification on any matter, I would be more than happy to provide it to you.

The first observation is that the author is anonymous. I am not even sure if the author is male or female since we are only given an initial and a middle name that seems to be male. There is no email address to reply or comment, no address or information about who this person is. In any case, I do not know the author who professes such intimacy with my sister.

The time frame of the article is completely jumbled. “Watching a Catholic community autodestruct is wrenching” “TFP is eating Kansas City alive” and other such statement make it sound like there is a real problem or crisis now in Kansas City. However most of the events or circumstances mentioned in the article took place 15-20 years ago. My sister has not lived in Kansas for 10 years. She has not been at KU for 12. She has not lived on the family farm complete with German shepherds for almost 17 years. What Catholic community self-destructed? What major disaster happened? I certainly have not heard of anything.
Moreover, my sister broke all ties with the TFP in 1996 and started her own organization which has no ties whatsoever. They themselves are the first to admit it. How can the author affirm the contrary?

The second thing that stands out is that there is no documentation at all. There are simply affirmations. No reference to our publications or other publications.
Other things are simply lies.
For example, no vocations ever came from the TFP. That is not true, there are three Americans who were associated with the TFP who are now seminarians studying to be priests. There are many other cases of young men associated with the TFP who became priests. One such priest, Canon Jose Villac in Brazil celebrated his 45th anniversary as priest with many TFP members present to honor him. We have the utmost regard for the priesthood and I defy the author to cite any case where we have acted otherwise.

If we have no regard for priests or the Mass, then go to our website. It is full of events where the central point was a Mass. Look at all the events where priests or bishops spoke. How do you argue against such gratuitous statements that fly in the face of reality? How can we “deceive” and trick priests and bishops who are intelligent and quite capable of perceiving such tricks?

The author certainly knows more about Babylonian Mystery religions than I do. I have no idea at all what she (he) is talking about. Where in any of our publications, any of our works do we even speak about this? What is a Babylonian Mystery Religion? Do they exist? What are their tenets? It is all secret. And it is a secret to me.
Likewise I don’t know who the ten kings of the Antichrist are and how they relate to Prof. Plinio. Just gratuitous statements.

The author obviously is not familiar with elementary Catholic social doctrine. I do agree with the statement “Few read the lavishly illustrated book.” The author obviously did not read our book or the letters of support by cardinals and bishops. The book is simply basic social doctrine of the Church about social classes and natural inequalities. It has nothing to do with Hindu caste system which is not mentioned in the book and is to be condemned. The book clearly states that it is not contrary to John Paul II’s preferential option for the poor. It simply quotes many popes and Papal teachings on the role of elites in society. If there is anything unorthodox about it, then the authors should point them out. Instead, the author accuses Pius XII of writing his letter to the nobility to “flatter” them to helping the poor. I was offended by the suggestion that a pope would use such dishonest means to accomplish a goal. I detect in the author’s tone a bitterness toward any kind of social hierarchy and this is contrary to Catholic social teaching.

The article is full of other accusations and distorted facts that we have answered before. I put at your disposition the book, “Let the Other Side be Heard,” which we published about 20 years ago when we were attacked by the now-defunct magazine Fidelity. Many of the author’s affirmations were borrowed from this article.

This is essentially my response. If you have any questions, please feel free to write again. As for the author, please pray for her (him).

John Horvat


14 posted on 08/29/2005 8:39:26 AM PDT by John Horvat
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To: John Horvat
TFP(SOCIETY FOR THE DEFENSE OF

TRADITION, FAMILY AND PROPERTY)

Case, Thomas. TFP: Catholic or

Cult. May, 1989. pp. 22 29.

* Must be the Fidelity piece you refer to.

Prior to reading your letter I had no doubt about the accuracy of the things I posted. After reading your post, my opinion remains unchanged. (Although, it must be said Ms. Horvat is fortunate to have a brother willing to defend her).

I have only one question, do you also think Plinio was the axiological principle?

15 posted on 09/07/2005 1:48:52 PM PDT by bornacatholic
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