Jesus Christ, the Son of God

Mormon Church ^ | 2010 | Jeffrey R. Holland

[Brookhaven]

It would appear to me, that by this article, the Mormons ARE Christians. They appear to just have a different view of the Trinity than we do.

Mormonism is as different from Christianity as Islam is from Christianity.

Both Mormonism and Islam grew out of Christianity.

Both recognize the Bible as "corrupted scripture" that has been corrected by a later set of scriptures.

Both claim Jesus Christ as part of their religion.

Neither believe Jesus was divine in the Christian sense (meaning Jesus was God and that there is one and only one God that is unique--Mormons believe in multiple (as in millions of) gods, Muslims believe there is only one God, but Jesus wasn't God).

Both claim a prophet came after Jesus, and their prophet's words are the final say.

Both believe in a salvation by works.

The truth is, as far as their religious beliefs, Mormonism is closer to Islam than traditional Christianity.

I don't mean that to be insulting. It's just the truth.

It's also the reason Mormons are not Christians, any more than Muslims are Christians.

[Jack Hydrazine]

Do Christians get to be gods, too, like Mormons?

[DManA]

The Trinity is the core of Christianity. If they get that wrong nothing else matters.

[DManA]

I agree with that.

[MHGinTN]

For those who Trust in Jesus as their Savior, below are the characteristics of the Mormon jesus. See if these characteristics are the ones which fit the Jesus of the Bible, the Jesus you would trust as Savior:

Mormons believe Jesus was married at the marriage feast in Cana where He changed water into wine.

Mormons believe that the Mormon jesus was married to more than one woman.

The Mormon jesus was persecuted because he was a polygamist.

The Mormon jesus came into existence when his father in heaven created him along with his brothers and sisters, as a spirit being who was not yet a god.

Mormons believe Lucifer was one of the Mormon jesus's brothers, before the Mormon jesus became a man and later a god.

The Mormon jesus has become one individual god in a troika of gods which includes the Mormon jesus's father--who was once a man and inhabits a body of flesh and bones and through goodness gained the attributes of godhood when he was selected by a council of gods to be the god of earth--and the ‘never to receive a fleshly body’ holy spirit.

The Mormon jesus can save you, after all that you can do to be worthy of the grace of the Mormon godhead--which is, again, a troika of three gods working for a common purpose.

Mormons believe their jesus can save a person who rejected Him while in their body, by accepting a proxy baptism for them performed in a Mormon Temple by a Temple worthy Mormon.

The Mormon jesus gained the attributes of godhood through the life he lived in the flesh, which gained for that jesus exaltation.

___________________________________________________________

Every one of that list of the Mormon jesus characteristics is based upon the teachings from Mormon leaders who are attested as true by Mormons, for if they do not swear they attest to these teachers' characterizations then they have no temple recommend!

When a Mormon accuses someone who opposes those heresies regarding Jesus of lying about their religious beliefs, we post the actual quotes of the teachers who said these things about the jesus Mormons are trusting to save them after all that they can do. And when one comes to make a vague accusation because of this post, I will list the quotes as they have been listed throughout this thread and others for days now.

[MHGinTN]

Meant to include you in the ping ... the LDS/Mormon jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible, nor is the Mormon/LDS god the same God of the Bible since in Mormon dogma the god of this earth had to gain the attributes of godhood AND be appointed to be the god over earth, and that appointed god then mated with his goddess wife and sired the Mormon jesus, his brother ‘lucifer’ and the souls of all human beings. Find that fiction written in the Bible and THEN you could claim Mormonism is Christian in nature.

[airedale]

All Christian denominations that I can think of do not consider Mormons Christian because of their view of the Trinity. The Trinity is an essential part of Christianity in all their theologies. The Nicene Creed is accepted by all of the major Christian denominations (from Eastern Orthodox, to Catholic, Protestant etc.). The LDS document The Great Apostrophe lays out the differences where the LDS church feels the rest of Christianity is wrong. This is an authoritative document backed by the 12 Apostles and has been for years. Basically it’s a rejection of what they feel is the improper overlaying of Greek thought on Christianity which they feel totally distorts Christianity.

That said it doesn’t mean that Mormons are evil, or a cult just that they believe substantially different that vast majority of Christians do and think were wrong and need to correct our theology.

[SZonian]

"...not scurrilous attacks."

You mean like mormons and others calling people "haters", "pigs", "swine", "yammering mocking demons", etc. for posting mormon doctrine and trying to discuss it?

"Doctrinal arguments can be good."

Says the one who calls others "haters" for posting/discussing mormon doctrine. Ya know, your "3 minutes of hate" comments without even bothering to see if there will be a discussion.

Hypocrite.

Mormon doctrine is not Christian doctrine. The mormons are free to believe as they will, but trying to co-opt Christian doctrine and then twist it into something else is deserving of scorn and our contention towards them.

By claiming that;

god had physical sex with Mary to conceive jesus,

saying that god and jesus are polygamists and are busy having eternal celestial sex in heaven to create spirit babies,

that all men are capable of earning godhood,

to then rule over their own planet and having eternal, polygamous sex to procreate spirits to populate their planet

makes them anything but Christian according to Christian beliefs and doctrines and they're going to be rebutted/refuted.

[Vendome]

Yeah, they get upset about quoting their scripture and their quotes.

It’s like “You weren’t suppose to know that or have that secret knowledge”.

Whatever.

[Vendome]

NO.

You are not worthy....

[Vendome]

Apostasy

---

When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. One example is the Great Apostasy, which occurred after the Savior established His Church. After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread apostasy, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the restoration of the fulness of the gospel.

Additional Information

During the Great Apostasy, people were without divine direction from living prophets. Many churches were established, but they did not have priesthood power to lead people to the true knowledge of God the Father and Jesus Christ. Parts of the holy scriptures were corrupted or lost, and no one had the authority to confer the gift of the Holy Ghost or perform other priesthood ordinances.

We now live in a time when the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored. But unlike the Church in times past, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will not be overcome by general apostasy. The scriptures teach that the Church will never again be destroyed (see D&C 138:44; see also Daniel 2:44).

Although there will not be another general apostasy from the truth, we must each guard against personal apostasy by keeping covenants, obeying the commandments, following Church leaders, partaking of the sacrament, and constantly strengthening our testimonies through daily scripture study, prayer, and service.

See also Church Administration; Priesthood; Restoration of the Gospel

—See True to the Faith (2004), 13-14

View More

[ejonesie22]

If you are willing to ignore slanderous ideas about your savior as a “All paths are correct” Christian, then yes, I guess one could argue that the LDS are “Christian” They do follow a fellow with the same name.

Some of us love our Savior a bit more than that.

[Colofornian]

From the article: By and large any controversy in this matter has swirled around two doctrinal issues—our view of the Godhead..

Ah, Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland, one of the "fave" speakers many Mormons like to here.

And here he not only reducing the number of distinctive key beliefs Mormons have distorted -- down to just "two" -- but even on the one above...reducing the view of "Divinity" to just distinct vantage points to this...pure reductionism.

So, here's some questions for you, Mr. Holland, and by extension, you Mr. Zulu, and by further extension, all you Mormons out there:

Is the Mormon belief in a wife-God of God the Father -- is she part of this grand "godhead," too? (No? Oh, so it's some kind of minor, secondary, trivial "issue" as to how many gods Christians honor from your perspective? Oh. I see)

Is the Mormon belief that your god was a former man who was appointed a god for this world -- an appointment made by the head of the gods -- is this "head god" part of this grand "godhead," too? (No? Oh, so that's some kind of minor, secondary, trivial "issue" as to how many more gods Christians honor from your perspective, eh? Oh. I see)

And the same goes for that "council of gods" that the "head Mormon god" heads up. Irrelevant, too?

And, then, what about all these former Mormon men and women heading up into godhood status. More theological trivial pursuit?

Sorry, Zulu. You and Mormons not only flunk theology, but simple math.

Time to hand back your high school diploma and go do some remedial math "learnin'."

The Bible says to worship ONE God and have NO OTHER gods before Him -- and Isaiah the prophet (read chapters 43, 44, 45) repeatedly emphasizes our God knows of no other true God -- and no God is beside Him.

Mormons not only have a handful of gods, but they are a pretend "god factory."

All: Steer clear of this cult.

[Vendome]

From LDS affairs

How Do Mormon Beliefs Differ From Other Christians?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB3lPCqDKBM

[maine-iac7]

There should be a pool on how long it will take for ‘elsie’ to chime in. and in. and in. and in.

Mormon bashing is her raison d’etra.

sad...anc comical

[Vendome]

You ask too many questions.

Read the book of Mormon 1st Nephi and if you truly have an open heart and honestly seek truth . . . then I’m sure you will know the Book of Mormon is true and light will be revealed to you.
/s

[Vendome]

Looked at another way, we are here to point out the differences between LDS and Christianity.

Everytime they knock on a door they are prepared to tell other differences and why their truth is superior.

Doesn’t make them bad people and it doesn’t make us good people.

We are just people with different theological and doctrinal differences.

[greyfoxx39]

It would appear to me, that by this article, the Mormons ARE Christians.

I'm gobsmacked that you believe that this article, by a "general authority" of the mormon church would cause you to believe that mormons are Christian.

For others on this thread, here is information taken directly from the official mormon website that directly contradicts the claim that mormons are Christian.

Priesthood Ordinances and Blessings - Mormon

Also, here is more information for everyone:

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an Pro-Christian group of people here that spends a great deal of their time posting factual articles from various sources about the LDS church.  Many of the articles come from the official site, LDS.org.

They have a calling to contend for Jesus Christ. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. They will rebut the fallacies in the original mormon article with true Biblical facts, and provide the URLs to them so that you too may read them for yourselves. They will also present conflicting statements from different LDS leaders with the attending source to these statements, usually historical documents or scriptures.

LDS persons SAY they have no issue whatsoever having their scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is usually not true. LDS persons,  including their 52,000 missionaries, with influence from their highest leaders do not WANT their beliefs presented "fairly" and especially not "accurately".  That is why they will use every tactic to prevent the pro-Christian material that rebuts claims presented by the LDS church from coming to light

Another favorite tactic of the Pro-Christian group is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma, yet in many cases present doctrine that many LDS members are unaware of.

That's a Christlike thing to do right?  It does speak volumes about them .

Some of the Pro-Christians bring special witness to you as being former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would be in a good position to carry the message of their own experience. 

 The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. The Pro-Christian group wishes to see that any gain in membership in the LDS church is done with the new applicant for membership having FULL KNOWLEDGE of the requirements, promises and arcane beliefs that they are becoming a part of.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" the Pro-Christians seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to bring to you the difference between your original concept of mormonism and what it actually is....a fraud perpetrated by a con man, adulterer and thief.

The goal of the Pro-Christian group is to provide you with tools to investigate a sect that spends millions and millions each year to spread its false message, so that you can question the clever lies and attempts to co-opt the message of real Christianity.

 Read the articles posted from mormon sources, question the belief therein, ask questions of the Pro-Christians and PRAY WITH THEM FOR GUIDANCE.  Do NOT fall into the trap presented by mormons to "read the Book of Mormon and pray to find if it is true".  It will be presented in a way that appeals to your senses, rather than your ability to study the Bible, compare it to the Book of Mormon and use your own good common sense to decide if God did indeed yank His Gospel from the Earth,  wait centuries, then choose a young man with a doubtful past to "restore" it.  There is no need for a "Restoration of the Gospel".  There is no need for earthly temples in which to take part in masonic rituals to gain salvation.  So again, seek the truth.  Use your God-given brain and discernment.

John 6:40 (American Standard Version)  "For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." You cannot "work" your way, or "worthy" your way to Salvation.

Be wary. If you "seek" on the internet, be aware that the LDS church has a very heavy presence there, and in fact one of its groups boasts of having over 300 websites filled with mormon proselytizing. Unfortunately, "Jesus Christ.org" is one domain owned by the LDS church and is very misleading.   If you visit there, be aware you are not seeing the true Christian message.

Here are only two links that will help you get started 

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 1"

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 2"

Any one of the Flying Inmans will be happy to answer questions and provide links to help you along the way.

 

God bless you in your journey to true Salvation.

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an Pro-Christian group of people here that spends a great deal of their time posting factual articles from various sources about the LDS church.  Many of the articles come from the official site, LDS.org.

They have a calling to contend for Jesus Christ. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. They will rebut the fallacies in the original mormon article with true Biblical facts, and provide the URLs to them so that you too may read them for yourselves. They will also present conflicting statements from different LDS leaders with the attending source to these statements, usually historical documents or scriptures.

LDS persons SAY they have no issue whatsoever having their scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is usually not true. LDS persons,  including their 52,000 missionaries, with influence from their highest leaders do not WANT their beliefs presented "fairly" and especially not "accurately".  That is why they will use every tactic to prevent the pro-Christian material that rebuts claims presented by the LDS church from coming to light

Another favorite tactic of the Pro-Christian group is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma, yet in many cases present doctrine that many LDS members are unaware of.

That's a Christlike thing to do right?  It does speak volumes about them .

Some of the Pro-Christians bring special witness to you as being former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would be in a good position to carry the message of their own experience. 

 The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. The Pro-Christian group wishes to see that any gain in membership in the LDS church is done with the new applicant for membership having FULL KNOWLEDGE of the requirements, promises and arcane beliefs that they are becoming a part of.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" the Pro-Christians seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to bring to you the difference between your original concept of mormonism and what it actually is....a fraud perpetrated by a con man, adulterer and thief.

The goal of the Pro-Christian group is to provide you with tools to investigate a sect that spends millions and millions each year to spread its false message, so that you can question the clever lies and attempts to co-opt the message of real Christianity.

 Read the articles posted from mormon sources, question the belief therein, ask questions of the Pro-Christians and PRAY WITH THEM FOR GUIDANCE.  Do NOT fall into the trap presented by mormons to "read the Book of Mormon and pray to find if it is true".  It will be presented in a way that appeals to your senses, rather than your ability to study the Bible, compare it to the Book of Mormon and use your own good common sense to decide if God did indeed yank His Gospel from the Earth,  wait centuries, then choose a young man with a doubtful past to "restore" it.  There is no need for a "Restoration of the Gospel".  There is no need for earthly temples in which to take part in masonic rituals to gain salvation.  So again, seek the truth.  Use your God-given brain and discernment.

John 6:40 (American Standard Version)  "For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." You cannot "work" your way, or "worthy" your way to Salvation.

Be wary. If you "seek" on the internet, be aware that the LDS church has a very heavy presence there, and in fact one of its groups boasts of having over 300 websites filled with mormon proselytizing. Unfortunately, "Jesus Christ.org" is one domain owned by the LDS church and is very misleading.   If you visit there, be aware you are not seeing the true Christian message.

Here are only two links that will help you get started 

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 1"

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 2"

Any one of the Flying Inmans will be happy to answer questions and provide links to help you along the way.

 

God bless you in your journey to true Salvation.

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an Pro-Christian group of people here that spends a great deal of their time posting factual articles from various sources about the LDS church.  Many of the articles come from the official site, LDS.org.

They have a calling to contend for Jesus Christ. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. They will rebut the fallacies in the original mormon article with true Biblical facts, and provide the URLs to them so that you too may read them for yourselves. They will also present conflicting statements from different LDS leaders with the attending source to these statements, usually historical documents or scriptures.

LDS persons SAY they have no issue whatsoever having their scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is usually not true. LDS persons,  including their 52,000 missionaries, with influence from their highest leaders do not WANT their beliefs presented "fairly" and especially not "accurately".  That is why they will use every tactic to prevent the pro-Christian material that rebuts claims presented by the LDS church from coming to light

Another favorite tactic of the Pro-Christian group is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma, yet in many cases present doctrine that many LDS members are unaware of.

That's a Christlike thing to do right?  It does speak volumes about them .

Some of the Pro-Christians bring special witness to you as being former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would be in a good position to carry the message of their own experience. 

 The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. The Pro-Christian group wishes to see that any gain in membership in the LDS church is done with the new applicant for membership having FULL KNOWLEDGE of the requirements, promises and arcane beliefs that they are becoming a part of.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" the Pro-Christians seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to bring to you the difference between your original concept of mormonism and what it actually is....a fraud perpetrated by a con man, adulterer and thief.

The goal of the Pro-Christian group is to provide you with tools to investigate a sect that spends millions and millions each year to spread its false message, so that you can question the clever lies and attempts to co-opt the message of real Christianity.

 Read the articles posted from mormon sources, question the belief therein, ask questions of the Pro-Christians and PRAY WITH THEM FOR GUIDANCE.  Do NOT fall into the trap presented by mormons to "read the Book of Mormon and pray to find if it is true".  It will be presented in a way that appeals to your senses, rather than your ability to study the Bible, compare it to the Book of Mormon and use your own good common sense to decide if God did indeed yank His Gospel from the Earth,  wait centuries, then choose a young man with a doubtful past to "restore" it.  There is no need for a "Restoration of the Gospel".  There is no need for earthly temples in which to take part in masonic rituals to gain salvation.  So again, seek the truth.  Use your God-given brain and discernment.

John 6:40 (American Standard Version)  "For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." You cannot "work" your way, or "worthy" your way to Salvation.

Be wary. If you "seek" on the internet, be aware that the LDS church has a very heavy presence there, and in fact one of its groups boasts of having over 300 websites filled with mormon proselytizing. Unfortunately, "Jesus Christ.org" is one domain owned by the LDS church and is very misleading.   If you visit there, be aware you are not seeing the true Christian message.

Here are only two links that will help you get started 

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 1"

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 2"

Any one of the Flying Inmans will be happy to answer questions and provide links to help you along the way.

 

[Jack Hydrazine]

Dang it! I really wanted to get that godship thing going before I left this Earth. I’m going to apply for five virgins instead! LOL!

[ejonesie22]

One of the oddest things I see around here from the LDS. Elsie most often posts direct, cited references from LDS material yet it is “bashing”.

To me it seems if the material stood the test anyone could post it, cited, and it would honor those who follow the precepts...

Instead it is met with personal attacks devoid of any attempt at explaining the material, it's context much less a rebuttal of any points of disagreement.

Perhaps the issue is not the poster but the material...

Hum...