On the Obligation of Blessing “Abraham’s Seed”

Wow! I think I will stick to a short period of time. After all, it was the last days for Mosaic Law, which ended with the destruction of Jerusalem. Everything Christ and the apostles said pointed in that direction.

Can't be so, because Yeshua said that Moses was in effect till ALL is fulfilled - ALL is not fulfilled.

>>>This passage doesn’t make sense - If the whole world was going to have a famine, why send money to Judea? But if the ‘whole world’ was a mistranslated ‘Eretz’ it could have just as easily meant ‘the whole land’ (of Judea or Israel), in which case, having drawn the meaning by way of the context of the sentence, the passage would make better sense, as the men of Antioch are not under the famine, and can afford to send money to those who are.<<<

That is a good point. The famine in Judea happened about 41 AD. Josephus wrote about it in Antiquities Book XX, 2 and 5

Philip

>>>Can't be so, because Yeshua said that Moses was in effect till ALL is fulfilled - ALL is not fulfilled.<<<

How do you interpret this verse:

"For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22 KJV)

Philip

I believe Moses put before the children of Israel a blessing and a curse. Maybe there are two sides to the story.

Genesis precedes the law - Gen 49 is Abrahamic Covenant, not Mosaic.

No matter, the new covenant states a single seed, Christ, inherited the promises: all of them. I haven't researched whether that is associated with the blessings; but it is also written that God sent Christ to bless Israel.

That's the problem with relying upon single verses without context - And I am not accusing you, but rather it is something everyone does... One cannot understand the Abrahamic covenant without understanding the inheritance... And furthermore, one cannot understand the inheritance without the understanding that it is irrevocable, nontransferable, and cannot happen until the death of the testator...

Part of why I think the 'last days' is an extended period of time is because of the time (after the death of the testator) for the inheritance to be distributed and realized. As an example, the time for Ephraim and Manasseh to become a 'company of nations' and a 'great nation' respectively, with all the blessings allotted... richness of mining and agriculture, aggregation of power, owning the gates of their enemies, etc, cannot magically happen overnight... And it cannot have happened (it isn't in the record) before 70AD either.

It sounds like Peter was speaking to Jews, even though he identified them as men of Israel. I am fairly certain the Jews had Christ killed.

There is confusion here - 'Israel' is Jacob... The Whole House (Israel and Judah). But since the House of Israel was long ago divorced, it can no longer be considered as part of the covenant (which is a marriage covenant). Hence, at the time of the coming of Messiah, The House of Judah is all that IS 'Israel'. A MAJOR vow in the Tanakh (OT) is the unconditional swearing YHWH made to bring the House of Israel back into the Covenant.

Anyway, Peter said this to the same group:

"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:25-26 KJV)

Yes, and it hasn't happened yet...

Whoa! Doesn't that say that God sent Christ to bless Israel? I thought these tribes were already blessed?

I don't see 'blessing' as being a singular thing - There can be singular blessings, there can be manifold blessings. Having been once blessed does not negate the opportunity of further blessings.

Maybe they were cursed.

Again once cursed does not make one ineligible for further curses. One can have a singular curse or manifold curses - and the curses do not negate the blessings necessarily - As I said elsewhere, ALL of the words of YHWH are true... So one must interpret both the curses and the blessings as having to come to pass... And as the blessings are eternal... as nothing takes them away, and since the prophets declare the days of Israel's blessings, when YHWH will live in their midst, that day has not yet come - But in that, one must consider the curses to be temporary in nature... Nailed to a tree for the purpose of eternity.

Recall that the Lord sent Elijah (John the Baptist) in what appears to be an attempt to prevent the curse (Mal 4:5-6.) But, Moses, in his prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem, had already foretold the curse:

There is more than one curse foretold.

I do agree that all the elect were from Israel, and that they are servants of Christ in the heavenly realm. I also agree that Israel (apostles and tribes) serves as the "foundations and gates" to the Church. But the Church--the Lamb's bride--includes Jews and Gentiles. These are just a couple of many examples:

Of course - I am not saying that... I am saying that structurally, national Judah rejected Messiah as prophesied... and that the ministry was taken from them as prophesied, and that it was given to 'lo ammi', as prophesied. There has ALWAYS been a gentile contingent, there have always been good and bad in Judah, and there has always been good and bad in Israel. The covenant is with Judah and Israel, and the gentiles are grafted in. I am talking of the ministry.

I believe you tried to read too much into what I wrote. In any case, is "lo ammi" the nation referred to in this verse?

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Mat 21:43 KJV)

Yes. The 'nation bringing forth the fruit thereof' is the 'lo ammi'.

So no Jews partook in the ministry or the inheritance?

No, the inheritance is tribal. The rod the crown and the staff have always been found in Judah - It culminates in Messiah.

Then why did Christ save the tents of Judah, first?

"The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah." (Zec 12:7 KJV)

I think that has just recently happened in the reestablishment of Israel (who is currently all Judah) or is yet to come in the coming wars.

For the record, which tribes were the disciples and apostles from?

Paul was of Benjamin - the rest are not recorded to my knowledge. But if you are angling toward them being each representative of a tribe, that cannot be.

He already has. This was present tense when Paul was still alive:

you have to understand the marriage - the betrothal legally actuates the marriage. Yeshua and his bride are already contractually married in betrothal; But while it is present tense then and now, it is still promissory until the consummation.

Me:>>>No matter, the new covenant states a single seed, Christ, inherited the promises: all of them. I haven't researched whether that is associated with the blessings; but it is also written that God sent Christ to bless Israel.<<<

You: >>>"That's the problem with relying upon single verses without context - And I am not accusing you, but rather it is something everyone does... <<<

Are you saying that Christ did not inherit the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant?

>>>One cannot understand the Abrahamic covenant without understanding the inheritance... And furthermore, one cannot understand the inheritance without the understanding that it is irrevocable, nontransferable, and cannot happen until the death of the testator...<<<

Please show me the scripture that I will need to understand where you are coming from.

>>>Part of why I think the 'last days' is an extended period of time is because of the time (after the death of the testator) for the inheritance to be distributed and realized. As an example, the time for Ephraim and Manasseh to become a 'company of nations' and a 'great nation' respectively, with all the blessings allotted... richness of mining and agriculture, aggregation of power, owning the gates of their enemies, etc, cannot magically happen overnight... And it cannot have happened (it isn't in the record) before 70AD either.<<<

The promises to Abraham went to his seed, Christ, and to the children of Christ. It is ongoing: if you are Christ's, then you are also a seed of the promise. It is not a racial thing.

>>>>"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:25-26 KJV)<<<

>>>Yes, and it hasn't happened yet...<<<

I have no idea where you came up with that. The blessings began on the day of Pentecost, and like a river of living water, have been flowing and blessing us, since.

>>>Again once cursed does not make one ineligible for further curses. One can have a singular curse or manifold curses - and the curses do not negate the blessings necessarily - As I said elsewhere, ALL of the words of YHWH are true... So one must interpret both the curses and the blessings as having to come to pass... And as the blessings are eternal... as nothing takes them away, and since the prophets declare the days of Israel's blessings, when YHWH will live in their midst, that day has not yet come - But in that, one must consider the curses to be temporary in nature... Nailed to a tree for the purpose of eternity.<<<

Would you quote a line or two of scripture from time to time. I can't make sense of your opinions.

>>>Of course - I am not saying that... I am saying that structurally, national Judah rejected Messiah as prophesied... and that the ministry was taken from them as prophesied, and that it was given to 'lo ammi', as prophesied. There has ALWAYS been a gentile contingent, there have always been good and bad in Judah, and there has always been good and bad in Israel. The covenant is with Judah and Israel, and the gentiles are grafted in. I am talking of the ministry.<<<

>>>Then why did Christ save the tents of Judah, first?<<<

>>>"The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah." (Zec 12:7 KJV)<<<

>>>I think that has just recently happened in the reestablishment of Israel (who is currently all Judah) or is yet to come in the coming wars.<<<

The tents of David were raised by Acts 10 (the conversion of Cornelius.) The tents of Judah had to have been raised before then.

>>>For the record, which tribes were the disciples and apostles from?<<<

>>>Paul was of Benjamin - the rest are not recorded to my knowledge. But if you are angling toward them being each representative of a tribe, that cannot be.<<<

No, I was merely trying to understand your concept of ministry. Paul was a minister of the gospel, and a Jew. Again, I think it time you post scripture in support of your opinions. Your opinions are just too hard for me to follow.

Thanks,

Philip

Jesus did not command, except by, the lower spirits. Your higher self, has always been free to do the next right thing, no matter what.

>>>Jesus did not command, except by, the lower spirits. Your higher self, has always been free to do the next right thing, no matter what.<<<

LOL! I no idea what that means. I don’t have a clue.

Philip

Okay. Good.

You bet. Fear is a hero. You have all the clues.