Posted on 09/02/2014 12:11:48 AM PDT by matthewrobertolson
Why did God allow for the striking-down of people in the Old Testament? How is this reconciled with the dogma of a loving God?
Protestants and modern-day "Jews" don't have an answer for this -- one beyond dualism or "mystery", I mean. But the Church does.
There is mortal sin, and there is venial sin (1 John 5:17). Mortal sin -- willful and of grave nature -- separates one from God, practically killing the soul. Venial sin -- all other -- must simply be cleansed, and it does not eternally separate us from Him. And this distinction is shown in the Old Testament.
Among mortal sins punished: irreverence (2 Samuel 6:1-7), despair/disbelief (Numbers 11:1-3), and false claims of authority (Numbers 16). These crimes have always been condemned.
Why did punishment change from body-centric to soul-centric? First, it didn't, because unrighteous people were also kept from entering the Limbo of the Patriarchs, which, after Christ's Sacrifice, later led to Heaven. Second, temporal punishment was the only way to get at the Jews' consciences: As liberal scholars love to point out, the majority of Jews did not believe in an afterlife!
God does not desire death, though it can be used to give us the best chance at salvation (2 Peter 3). (I think here of St. Rita and her sons.) Even in the old days, He merely wanted a contrite heart (Psalm 51:17), and He wanted devotion.
There is no change in principle: God is immutable.
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this is unnecessarily antagonistic.
protestants have an answer. there are many reasons why, one or more may apply to a specific case. generally speaking when God actually strikes a person down, it’s an example. we can say with 100 confidence the person struck down was 100% wrong about something. so much so that God struck them down. often it was to serve as an example to be remembered. these examples for others is an expression of God’s love for people. in that we remember these times and not make the same mistakes ourselves. not’out of fear that it guarantees God will do the exact same to us, but that we respect God when He puts a stop to someone doing bad behavior. it also is a reminder that sins against a holy, perfect God are not minor, that they do have negative consequences and that God, the author of life, can take it back. all our sins deserve temporal and eternal death because they are all against an infinitely perfect God. it shows God loves us because of the fact we don’t get struck down for our sins we commit everyday. He is not a God who cannot wait to strike us down for the smallest misstep. He loved us so much He had a plan to save us from the penalty of our sins. He sent His son to live a perfect life as a man, the God-man, the Messiah, our Kinsmen Redeemer. He paid the price forall. an infinite God required infinite penalty, for billions mof peoples’ sins, and God the Son became fully man and lived a perfect life, and gave that life as a blood sacrifice - without the shedding of blood no sins are forgiven - and paid for our sins with His perfect atoning life/blood. A worthy offering that God accepted and legally cleared our sin debts to Him, if we receive’this gift and accept it.
In the OT they already knew from Genesis 3 God told Eve He would send a kinsmen redeemer to redeem them from the fall. The OT folks’knew of God’s’promise so their belif in that promise - Jesus - just not named at that point - was their faith and trust in God which showed’they were saved because they believed God when He said He would, in the future, save them.
of course protestants have an answer for this. it’s assinine to start a piece like this.
Why the quotation marks around the word Jews?
I’m well aware of that answer, but it’s a form of dualism (which I mentioned). It doesn’t address the consistency issue. Where is its parallel today? Surely, such a key principle wouldn’t simply vanish from God’s religion!
Oh, okay...
“Why did God kill people?”>>>>>
Simple, because he is a jealous god.
But God is the end all be all of everything. What could he be jealous of? That statement makes no sense.
Because the people in question were:
a) Occupying the Holy Land, which had been promised to the Hebrews/Jews.
b) engaging in intolerable evil—specifically the murder and rape of children, and sodomy.
The current state of Israel is there not because God promised the land to the Jews, because they are not a holy people. For just one example, they practice abortion. The people currently living in the Holy Land took it by force, by natural means.
The United States and Western Europe are being destroyed because they not merely practice, but celebrate abortion, the rape of children, and sodomy.
Not looking to start a flame war here but rather pointing out your own myopic views by showing the opposite side of the coin. To Protestants, Catholics practice a number of very serious sins.
But God is the end all be all of everything.>>>>>>>>>>>>
In his realm this is true but outside of his box it is not.
Even the omnipotent cannot occupy the entirety of space and time.
As to his being a jealous god, it is so written and widely accepted. I respect him very much.
Deuteronomy 6:15
For the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth.
Exodus 34:14
for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God,
God was killing people before Catholicism, wasn’t he?
Bump4L8R
God’s dealing with the Jewish nation is under the old covenant.
With Jesus’ death on the cross, we are operating under the new covenant.
God never struck anyone down for no reason, either.
It usually had to do with gross, continual, unrepentant sin.
From what I have read in the OT, God ALWAYS warned people of impending judgment for their actions, usually multiple times, giving them plenty of opportunity to repent and change their ways.
When people repented, God spared them. If they didn’t, they finally got what they were warned about.
Have you read the Beatitudes lately?
Because we're past the burning people at the stake phase for disagreeing with us.
It can't be that God has changed.
Of course God hasn't changed but his dealing with people has.
Romans 2:4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
Why don't we kill people for sin these days? Because God doesn't command us to.
There is no disconnect.
God's mercy gives people the opportunity to repent.
Here's a newsflash for some, apparently. God WANTS to save people.
There must be a perversion in thinking somewhere.
There sure is. But it's not because God is rich in mercy and isn't commanding us to kill our enemies. It's a failure to see the true nature of God and His dealing with us under the new covenant, thinking that we must still operate under the old.
Did that all get changed when Christ went to the cross for the forgiveness of our sins?
Once again, Matthew Olson lobs his typical grenade. His “explanations” of the correctness of Catholic dogma are merely poorly disguised attacks on Protestants. And to think Jesus said ‘Love one another as you love yourself.’ Doesn’t seem to be much love in Matthew’s heart and dogmatic hair splitting can’t fix that.
Rather it talks about the differences to how Catholics and Protestants view sin.
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