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To: NYer

Nice! I like the transliteration and translation of the papyrus fragment.

I think Kosloski errs when he say theotokos is an adjectival form of ... its not clear, theophoreo? Tokos comes from tikto and has to do with parturition. the Phoreo family of words .. which lingers through the Latin ferro and comes to us in words like transFER and reFERence... means to carry.

My own guess is that the confusion arises because in northern tongues “bear” (as a verb) means both to carry and to give birth ... and, I suppose, a “bairn” is a “born one”. So if WE say “God-bearer” there’s an equivocation that does not exist in Greek or Latin. We could mean God-carrier or God-birther.

Strictly speaking Deipara or Theotokos mean God birther.
Deigenetrix is more general, including both pregnancy and parturition.
...

In any case, the recognition of the hypostatic union and its early appearance in liturgy and devotion is wonderful to me.

So is this coffee!


8 posted on 04/29/2017 8:49:59 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: Mad Dawg; NYer

By the same tokens, that could preclude insistence upon the equivocation "Mother of God".

If those in attendance at Council of Ephesus had intended to convey fullest sense of the term 'Mother of God' they could have (and would have?) coined a phrase conveying more precisely that very sense, yet they did not. They refrained from going *quite* that far with things, at that time...

It was only later individuals more commonly began further elevation of "Mary" towards being über-saint, the highest of all those perceived to be saints.

That papyrus 470 has possible early date (AD 250) is rather slim chance [see Dating the Sub Tuum Praesidium – Is Marian Veneration Apostolic? in ending note concludes;

Furthermore, regardless of whether it is third or fourth century, it is the first such example of prayer to Mary. From this, we can reasonable infer that prayer to Mary is not an apostolic tradition – it is a human tradition that arose centuries after Christ’s resurrection.


337 posted on 05/01/2017 3:39:46 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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