| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 09/03/2017 10:51:05 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Caucus members breaking guidelines and two posters made death threats to the Pope. |
Posted on 09/02/2017 3:12:33 PM PDT by ebb tide
A new book, Pope Francis has spoken out on a variety of topics from his personal development to many issues facing church and state. Not surprisingly, LGBT topics were mentioned, and not surprisingly, the pope’s statements are a mixed bag.
The book, entitled Politics and Society, is a series of 12 conversations between the pope and Dominique Wolton, a French sociologist. Crux carried a string of excerpts from the book on his visits to a psychoanalyst, the role of the laity, colonial exploitation, and, of course, same-gender marriage and gender identity. On the last topic, the excerpt reads:
“Marriage between people of the same sex? ‘Marriage’ is a historical word. Always in humanity, and not only within the Church, it’s between a man and a woman… we cannot change that. This is the nature of things. This is how they are. Let’s call them ‘civil unions.’ Lets not play with the truth. It’s true that behind it there is a gender ideology. In books also, children are learning that they can choose their own sex. Why is sex, being a woman or a man, a choice and not a fact of nature? This favors this mistake. But let’s say things as they are: Marriage is between a man and a woman. This is the precise term. Lets call unions between the same sex ‘civil unions’.” For the most part, this section is not surprising. On many occasions, Pope Francis has stated his opposition to marriage for lesbian and gay people. And he is also on the record for being negative towards new understandings of gender identity, though positive about welcoming transgender people. What’s new here, however, is his endorsement of civil unions for same-sex couples. Although many church leaders have suggested supporting such an arrangement in recent years, Pope Francis has never, as pontiff, stated his endorsement of civil unions so flatly. (He did support civil unions as a compromise to his opposition towards marriage equality when he was an archbishop in Argentina. As pontiff, he did make an ambiguous statement about civil unions, which inspired more questions than certainty about his position.) This new statement of support from him is a giant step forward. What is significant here is that he is agreeing to the importance of some sort legal recognition of civil unions for lesbian and gay couples. I don’t think he will be campaigning for such legislation, but it sure sounds like he is comfortable with them and that he won’t be blocking them. Most troublesome, though, is his continuation of promoting the idea that children are being taught to choose their sex or gender. He has said such before, but in all the material I have read on transgender issues and education about gender, I have never seen any evidence that children are being taught such a notion. In fact, it goes against what most transgender people say of their experience which they describe as a discovery of a discrepancy between their internally experienced gender and their external physical bodies. “Discovery” is a very long way from “choice.” Moreover, I don’t know of any educational programs that discuss gender with children before it is educationally and psychologically appropriate to do so. So, once again, Pope Francis both progresses and regresses on LGBT issues. To read all of Crux’s excerpts, click here.
There is no REAL difference between this and “gay marriage.”
Die already!
Soooo pope baby thinks sin is okay with God??? Either you marry ,one man and one woman or you are chaste....Now,we find a third way..God is okay with SOME SINS...Civil unions,divorced getting communion..Who knows next year pope Frankie may say God is okay with aborting the poor babies to save mother earth....
So much for affirmations by rhetorically asking, “Is the Pope Catholic?”
Because he obviously is not.
So much for affirmations by rhetorically asking, “Is the Pope Catholic?”
Because he obviously is not.
What a terrible shame.
The feature that served as a bulwark in the Roman segment of Christendom — its hierarchy, capped by a traditional successor to Peter himself — has rotted enough to require Catholics who want to live blessed, godly Christian lives to do a radical rethink.
Obviously, concerns about people going to hell arise. Now maybe the church is giving itself too much credit or blame in the matter. Maybe we crazy evangelicals are correct that it’s a Jesus and predestination/foreknowledge matter and it’s something that not even an erring church can mess up. If someone goes to hell, nothing would have stopped it anyhow — at best being around a better church would have caused them to go to hell with a better veneer.
Hmmm, time for a survey about who is the most dangerous enemy of the Catholic Churcy - the Pope or Jesuits. (Or both?)
Gay civil unions will always lead to gay marriage.
‘Maybe we crazy evangelicals’
Maybe we crazy evangelicals ought to stay off the Catholic Caucus threads.
You’re one? If so, and that’s what you believe, why are you on it?
As for me, I obey the Word when it says to give a reason for the hope that is in me. I think this colossal failure of the pope and the modern magisterium is permitted by God exactly for the purpose of refocusing the hopes of the largest single segment of Christendom. Somehow, being right with God is more than just being the people who are calling themselves the leading members of the church.
He’ll get his chance to explain in front of the guy up there.
And come on... think even of what Luther said that he wanted (with the 500th Reformation Day just around the corner). It wasn’t to found a whole separate church. It was for the church that he knew and loved to come back to God. Maybe it took its leadership leaving God blatantly enough to make it happen. Maybe Luther will get his first stated wish with respect to the church soon after all.
That’s a positive yes.
Explaining it to the serious Christians in the church might actually be less easy.
Does anyone really listen to what they say? The POPE an enemy of the Catholic Church?? A true pope?
Writer: "What’s new here, however, is his endorsement of civil unions for same-sex couples."
I am no fan of this Anti-Pope, but the writer of this article is not fair. The Pope is not endorsing civil unions. He is endorsing the use of a term to distinguish these fictional marriages from real marriages.
"Civil union" is the best term for this since it captures the idea, it is already widely used, and it does not try to twist the meaning of an existing term.
Pope Francis is the first Jesuit pope, there is your answer.
There were reports that Francis did support civil unions in Argentina prior to his election.
its humiliating what’s happening in the Catholic church....not that I’m a very good Catholic, but I want and need my Catholic church to be my foundation....but, we’re twisting in the wind.
It is legalized sodomy, one of the sins that cries to Heaven for vengeance, and Bergoglio recognizes said sodomy as a civil right.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
