Christ Is Superior to Angels

Grace To You.org ^ | 1993 | John MacArthur, Grace Community Church

[metmom]

Do you have ANY Scripture to support your contention?

[metmom]

No kidding? And the Blessed Mother is also superior to the angels.

Book, chapter, and verses, please.

[metmom]

I’m always baffled by friends who pray to angels. A big storm is coming and my friend waves her hand in the air and commands angels to prevent the storm from ruining the garage sale.

Yeah, I know someone like that.

Kooky.......

Doesn't always work either.

[metmom]

If this is a thread for still-practicing Catholics only, then I will gladly and peacefully bow out now.

It's not.

The whole diversion by bringing Mary into it is clearly just pot stirring.

[BuddhaBrown]

"Do you have ANY Scripture to support your contention?"

Well, I'm not particularly fond of playing scripture poker in general.

But don't God's words, via Moses, which I quoted and very specifically cited (Gen 1:26) count at least as on opening bid?

[ransomnote]

I smile at here and say, “Oh, I don’t mess with them. I pray to the One in charge of the whole operation.”
I think she feels it makes her warm and special to be in “close communion” with angels. Really, I think it makes her feel powerful because she can’t command God to do anything but she feels she can command Angels.
Not long after I noticed this, I discovered that she basically leads seances with a friend (*sigh*) so I do think it’s about power - she likes to tell other people “important things” I dunno. I am one who believes we are living in the end times and this would NOT be the time (like any time is right?) to try to play God.

[metmom]

This woman I know is into power too.

She said she used to be in for all the love stuff, but now she’s past that and goes to the power conferences.

[metmom]

Say, you don’t live in Upstate NY do you?

[ebb tide]

Where in the Litany that I posted, is Mary worshiped?

I only see intercessions for Her to to pray for us.

It is only God; the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, Who is worshiped in the Litany.

[ebb tide]

Book, chapter, and verses, please.

Glad you've asked.

Many people put the Mother of Jesus down as often as they can, thinking that by degrading her they are somehow building up Jesus.  They say things like "Mary is dead and can't help you", "Mary was just an incubator for Jesus", "Jesus put his mother down by calling her "Woman, and "If Mary had refused Gabriel, then God would have just picked someone else".  All of that kind of talk is crazy, but they do it because they think that Catholics worship Mary as a goddess, and by putting her down, they are showing Catholics that Jesus is #1.  How many people would like it if you said - "I love you, but I really can't stand your mother".  And how many people regularly put down their own mother to reinforce the fact that their Dad is #1?  No one.  Jesus called her "Woman" all of the time to let us all know that she is the new Eve (Adam named his mate "Woman") who's yes to Gabriel overcame Eve's yes to lucifer.

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Most of the time in the Bible, God chooses to do His work through a human, whether it's Moses, Jacob, Joseph of the Old Testament, or one of the Prophets like Isaiah or Elisha. It's no different with Mary. God allowed salvation in the person of Jesus Christ to enter into the world through Mary, even though he could have just appeared all on his own. In like manner, it shows great humility on our part to approach Jesus in the exact same way that He approached us - Through Mary.  After all, if Jesus was obedient to Mary for 30 years of his life here on earth, shouldn't we imitate Him in that respect?   If Mary was good enough for Jesus, who are we to say that she isn't good enough for us?  Jesus Himself said that "No servant is greater than His Master".

If one is lost and needs to get somewhere, the best thing to do is to find someone who knows the way better than anyone else.  Most of mankind is lost, and needs to find Jesus. Mary is the one person who knows the way better than anyone else, because she and Jesus shared the same body for 9 months, Jesus was subject to her for 30 years, they probably even look alike, and they are of one accord.  Getting close to Mary is the fastest and best way to get close to Jesus.  It's pure folly to even think that by getting close to Mary you are somehow getting farther away from Jesus.  Jesus got his sacred Body and his precious Blood from MARY!

Catholics never have worshiped Mary as a goddess, but we do recognize that her soul, like every other soul ever made, is very much alive. People who say that Mary is dead sound more like atheists than like Christians. Mary says that her soul "magnifies the Lord", which makes Jesus clearer, more in focus, and larger.  That's a great lens to be looking at Jesus through.    According to Gabriel, Mary was full of grace before the incarnation of Jesus, which indicates that Mary was part of the heavenly plan all along, not a random choice.

Mary is the daughter of God the Father, the bride of the Holy Spirit, and the mother of Jesus.  That would make it almost blasphemous to put her down on every occasion. As Gabriel said, in a message from God, "Hail Mary!"  Catholics agree wholeheartedly with Gabriel! 

Here are some scripture quotes that refer to the Mother of God.

At enmity with satan

Genesis 3:15: I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

Christ will be born of a virgin

Isaiah 7:14:Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Full of Grace before the incarnation

Luke 1:26-28:in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,  to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.  And he came to her and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!"

Mary sanctifies the greatest man (John the Baptist) while he is still in the womb

Luke 1:15:for he will be great before the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink,  and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41:And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit

Mary's Blessed Fruit

Luke 1:42:and she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

Luke 6:43-44: For no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit; for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush.

Mary is the Mother of God

Luke 1:43:And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Mary's need of a savior

Luke 1:47: and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

Most Blessed Woman of all time

Luke 1:48: for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.  For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;

What God has done for her

Luke 1:49: for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

Mary's sufferings united with Jesus'

Luke 2:34-35:and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against  (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed."

Mary's total obedience to God more important than her motherhood

Luke 11:27-28:As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!"  But he said, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

Mary's role in intercession with Jesus

John 2:3-5:When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."  And Jesus said to her, "O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come."  His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you.

Mary is our Mother

John 19:26-27: When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"  Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

Revelation 12:17:Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Mary and Jesus are united as one (as are all of the saints in heaven)

1 Corinthians 6:17: But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Mary,  the New Testament Ark of the Covenant

Revelation 11:19-12:1:Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

Mary's body is in heaven

Revelation 12:1:And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

Mary is Queen of Heaven

Revelation 12:1:And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

Still at enmity with Satan

Revelation 12:17:Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

 

[metmom]

Yes, Jesus was born of a virgin.

Very clear prophesy fulfilled.

The rest is a masterful job of creating doctrine and then cherry picking verses to try to support it by making them imply things they don’t even come close to actually saying.

[ebb tide]

The rest is a masterful job of creating doctrine and then cherry picking verses to try to support it by making them imply things they don’t even come close to actually saying.

Well why don't you cherry pick verses that countermand the verses I have quoted?

Or are you saying the Holy Bible, i.e. the Holy Ghost, contradicts Himself?

And remember, now, Luther did not author the Bible.

[BlueDragon]

More [borderline] plagiarism. Borderline for reason that it's fairly obvious that's not your own work -- not your own writing. When copying from source (other than perhaps of one's own work) one really should post links to the source. For what was posted at comment #30 this thread, that source was obviously enough: http://www.catholicbible101.com/themaryverses.htm

The first part of the first sentence is the stuff of falsehood;

"Many people put the Mother of Jesus down as often as they can, ..."

Opposition to Marian doctrines is not "putting the Mother of Jesus down". It is opposition to theological considerations, doctrines and dogma that have developed in regards to Mary.

[BlueDragon]

Well why don't you cherry pick verses that countermand the verses I have quoted?

What was it that metmom asked you for? Chapter and verse for "Mary" being greater than angels, wasn't it?

None of the passages addressed that particular point, even though it's my own view the point itself is to perhaps ask the a wrong question...

The cut-'n-paste boilerplate which you posted serves little purpose, other than to perhaps showcase the mindset some (many?) Roman Catholics have in regard to "Mary", and how passages that make mention of her, or could be thought to, have suffered having meanings imposed upon the text that were not the understanding of the early church.

Victorinus, Died 303 or 304 AD, and according to wiki "an Early Christian ecclesiastical writer who flourished about 270 AD", Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John Chapter 12, from Ante Nicene Fathers, Volume 7 [title page here];

The woman clothed with the sun, and having the moon under her feet, and wearing a crown of twelve stars upon her head, and travailing in her pains, is the ancient Church of fathers, and prophets, and saints, and apostles,²²⁹⁸ which had the groans and torments of its longing until it saw that Christ, the fruit of its people according to the flesh long promised to it, had taken flesh out of the selfsame people. Moreover, being clothed with the sun intimates the hope of resurrection and the glory of the promise. And the moon intimates the fall of the bodies of the saints under the obligation of death, which never can fail. For even as life is diminished, so also it is increased. Nor is the hope of those that sleep extinguished absolutely, as some think, but they have in their darkness a light such as the moon. And the crown of twelve stars signifies the choir of fathers, according to the fleshly birth, of whom Christ was to take flesh.

---

2298 [No hint here that this was a manifestation of the Blessed Virgin, the modern fiction of Rome. See vol. vi, p. 355, this series.]

(link for the footnote 2298 altered to direct to proper page in ANFO6 for this information, page 336, directing to Methodius of Olympus [a.d. 260–312], also known as Eubulius, THE BANQUET OF THE TEN VIRGINS chpt.5 —The Woman Who Brings Forth, to Whom the Dragon is Opposed, the Church; Her Adornment and Grace. )

Your welcome...

60 Years On

[Elsie]

"Open up your own Scriptures and I'll prove my claim from them." It results in a powerful and irresistible argument.

What a NOBLE concept!!

[Elsie]

But you neglected my first point--we have God's Image in us. That is so awesome I cannot even begin to explain or comprehend it.

Comprehend?

99.999% of us seem to miss the FACT that...

Genesis 5:2-4

He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.
When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters

[Elsie]

As it has been explained to me, when God allows man to judge, it’s more of a confirmation of God’s judgement than any actual doom pronouncement.

[Elsie]

Everybody’s fate has already been decided at the beginning.

Got any Scripture that shows this to be true?

[Elsie]

As it has been explained to me...

HMMMmmm...

Who did the explaining?

[Elsie]

I am just repeating Scripture.

There is a REALLY big religious organization that teaches you need MORE than just 'scripture' to understand the requirements of GOD.