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To: JayGalt
What can be reasoned one way can be reasoned another way.

... and therefore you reject a reasoned argument without addressing it. You would reject an unreasoned argument as well. Would it be fair to say you are not open to communication that disagrees with your point-of-view at all?

The rigidity of outlook in the article engendered a visceral response in me.

It certainly didn't engender a logical one. What about the rigidity of your own outlook, which apparently brooks no disagreement?

Because it involves masturbation IVF is wrong. Surely you jest.

Authentic Christian moral teaching rejects all sexual activity outside of marital intercourse, open to conception, between husband and wife. Look it up. NO mainstream, orthodox Christian group taught otherwise prior to 1930.

8 posted on 05/17/2018 4:56:30 AM PDT by Campion (Halten Sie sich unbedingt an die Lehre! [Hold absolutely onto the Teaching! -- BXVI])
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To: Campion

I think I differentiate between a relationship with God & Jesus and the teachings of the Church. I am sorry we disagree so vehemently. I believe there is nothing illogical about my position.

I actually did address the arguments not in detail but in rebuttal. Perhaps the thread was only meant for orthodoxy and I strayed where I was not meant to go.

In debating and reasoning it is acceptable to reject a premise and not wander down the paths where the premise is leading you. That is my position. I reject the notion that assisted procreation is ungodly or breaks down the bonds of marriage & family. Reasoning that comes to that conclusion is in my opinion flawed. I reject it at the onset and do not need to rebut point by point, from an initial flawed premise there can be no truth.

God is above all in our hearts and in our commitment to love and cherish one mate and all the children that God blesses us with.

I am reminded of the story of the faithful man who dies waiting for rescue on a rooftop in a flood and berates God saying “I cried out to you and you didn’t come”. God’s answer is “I sent 3 boats and you rejected them all”. I believe God who loves us made us capable of scientific endeavors and sent reproductive scientific advances as a boat to those who would otherwise be left without rescue.

Believing in that way I am not amenable to people trying to shame those in need because they have allowed science to help them. Science can be used for ignoble and frankly evil ends and I would decry those incidences and make them illegal if I could but there is the possibility of evil in every facet of life but also the possibility of great good.

As an aside we did not need reproductive assistance with our 4 children. I have, however, known 2 couples who grew old, childless because one partner rejected reproductive assistance of any kind. The women in these marriages felt bereft; their lives were blighted with a central pervading sadness. It was wrenching to know them.


9 posted on 05/17/2018 9:34:31 AM PDT by JayGalt (You can't teach a donkey how to tap dance.)
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To: Campion

Again with the church teaching...
For me the Bible, yes, church teaching is men’s words and interpretations. If you enjoy having others decide for you fine but in the end at judgement day you and you alone are responsible for your actions & decisions. That you followed church teachings will not save you if in your heart you did not act in accordance with Christ’s teachings and if the mortal teachings you relied on were flawed.

Pardon me as a heretic if you must. I believe in personal responsibility to follow Christ and give over my conscience to no man alive or dead.


10 posted on 05/17/2018 9:42:55 AM PDT by JayGalt (You can't teach a donkey how to tap dance.)
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