Priest: Tradition must be completely legitimized in order to wipe out the confusion which...

Francesca Romana ^ | August 7, 2018 | Rorate Caeli

[ebb tide]

A Parish Priest: Tradition must be completely legitimized in order to wipe out the confusion which now reigns supreme

H/T Messa in Latino blogspot

Received from a reader of Messa in Latino and published with pleasure:

“I went to Confession in my parish. The priest who was about 60 years old, said to me “I have been here almost five years and it seems to me that I have never seen you before”.

“That’s true Father. You have never seen me because every Sunday I go to the […….] Shrine where Holy Mass in the Old Rite is celebrated.” (Editor’s note: following the liturgical indications of the Motu Proprio, Summorum Pontificum).

I expected the usual lecture as had happened when I spoke about it to the Rector of a very famous Marian Shrine. Instead this priest very kindly said to me: “Keep going my son: that is the real future of the Church!” The liturgy of our fathers will save the Church! Keep going and never give up!”

“Father – I replied – why don’t you celebrate the Mass in the Old Rite which you praise so highly?”

The priest: “After my first public celebration I experienced disparagement on the part of my order,  but most of all  I’m concerned that they will send a Protestant pastor here [in the parish] – be patient for a little while longer: Tradition is going be completely legitimized and the  pestilent confusion which is reigning supreme now will be wiped out. Have faith: Our Lady will help us!”                                 

[Source]

Translation: Contributor Francesca Romana  

[ebb tide]

Full title:

A Parish Priest: Tradition must be completely legitimized in order to wipe out the confusion which now reigns supreme

[Montana_Sam]

Indeed, Tradition must return, front and center.
But it will require humble men to accomplish it, eh?

[irishjuggler]

There are roughly two possible ways that this will go. Either (1) tradition wins and a smaller, more faithful Church is restored; or (2) the Church goes all in with modernism, fully co-opting the (failed) program of liberal protestantism (homosexuality approved & celebrated, women priests approved and celebrated, and, yes, abortion approved & celebrated.). In the John Paul 2 era, many thought there was a middle way of modernist liturgy & practice, combined with with traditional doctrine/dogma. Bergoglio has pretty much proven that there is no middle way. The center has collapsed. It's traditional, pre-Vatican 2 Catholicism (e.g., with a Church that's smaller than it is now but more faithful) or liberal protestantism (which gains the approval of the social elites but ultimately collapses into total irrelevance as the mainline protestant churches of Europe and North America have already done) . Pick one.

Sadly, there's not a doubt in my mind that the powers that be in the Vatican and a large number of the episcopate are in favor of Door #2. On the other hand, somehow the Holy Spirit may prevail against them.

[ealgeone]

Tradition is going be completely legitimized and the pestilent confusion which is reigning supreme now will be wiped out. Have faith: Our Lady will help us!”

And therein is one of the problems with Rome. They are relying upon Mary instead of the Savior.

[Spacetrucker]

“They are relying upon Mary instead of the Savior.”
_____________________

Not being Catholic myself but having attended many Catholic services, this is the one thing that has always vexed me about most Catholic churches - when in the Bible, Christ Himself does not give anything near to deification to Mary, how does the Church justify doing so?

[ealgeone]

Not being Catholic myself but having attended many Catholic services, this is the one thing that has always vexed me about most Catholic churches - when in the Bible, Christ Himself does not give anything near to deification to Mary, how does the Church justify doing so?

Take Mary out of the Roman Catholic church and it would pretty much collapse.

[Falconspeed]

Good point. “There are roughly two possible ways that this will go.”

Both. Just as the Democrats are destroying their party, so too the Modernists are destroying their church. “Cut off his nose to spite his face.” “Shoot yourself in the foot.” Stuff like that.

Sad thing is that the Democrats are destroying their country and modernists are sending themselves to damnation - and don’t even know it. Pitiful.

What do to? A new party will replace the Democrats. New Catholics will replace the Modernists. We have seen this in history before where 80% of the Catholics were Arians in the 300’s.

[Mach9]

Catholics do not deify Mary. They recognize her unique, human status as the mother of God and as such, conceived without sin. Christ’s first miracle (the wedding in Cana) was at her behest and for no more serious a reason than that she suggested “Son, they have no wine.” Is it rational for Christians to disregard such influence?

[Spacetrucker]

I never said Mary should be removed in any sense; I have had numerous Catholics refer to Mary as Co-Redemptor with Christ - that seems almost heretical to me.

[ealgeone]

I never said Mary should be removed in any sense; I have had numerous Catholics refer to Mary as Co-Redemptor with Christ - that seems almost heretical to me.

By removal, I mean revoke the current Marian dogmas, take out the idols of Mary, cease the prayers to her and reliance upon her for salvation, answered prayers, toll away all of the Scapulars and Miraculous Medals, etc.

In other words, stop the worship of Mary.

[ealgeone]

Catholics do not deify Mary.

The idols of Mary in Roman Catholic churches and homes which Roman Catholics kneel before and pray to say otherwise.

They recognize her unique, human status as the mother of God and as such, conceived without sin.

The Immaculate Conception is a belief not supported nor found in Scripture and not unanimous among the ECFs as noted in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Christ’s first miracle (the wedding in Cana) was at her behest and for no more serious a reason than that she suggested “Son, they have no wine.” Is it rational for Christians to disregard such influence?

Roman Catholicism has taken so many liberties with this account in John.

They mistakenly believe that Mary holds such sway over Jesus that their prayers are better directed to her than to the Son....than when she speaks He does it.

Think about that for a moment.

Roman Catholics believe a created being can tell the Creator what to do and He does it.

However, we see a different account in the NT when Jesus was speaking and His mother and brothers and sisters were outside wanting to speak to Him.

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:46-50 NASB

[metmom]

The other is abandoning Scripture in favor of Tradition.

Scripture doesn’t change.

[ealgeone]

Scripture doesn’t change.

But Rome's "Tradition" has, does and will change.

[metmom]

Which is why it’s being completely legitimized.

[fishtank]

There is no need for the mass:

NASB Hebrews 10:

10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God,

13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet.

14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

[fishtank]

Roman tradition.

[Campion]

The passage you cite has nothing to do with the Mass one way or the other, since the "same sacrifices which can never take away sins" are the Jewish animal sacrifices in the temple, and the Mass re-presents the one sacrifice of Calvary.

However, this passage:

We have an altar from which those who serve the [c]tabernacle have no right to eat. -- Hebrews 13:10, NASB

... absolutely does have to do with the Mass. If Christians have an "altar" (a table for sacrifice, by definition) from which they (but not the Jewish priests) "eat," that can only refer to the Eucharist.

[Campion]

The idols of Mary in Roman Catholic churches and homes which Roman Catholics kneel before and pray to say otherwise.

Do we pray to statues or do we pray to Mary? Make up your mind already!

[Campion]

Roman Catholics believe a created being can tell the Creator what to do and He does it.

Think carefully about that. Mary is in heaven. Can a blessed soul in heaven will something contrary to what God wants? (The technical term for "willing something contrary to what God wants" is "sin," BTW.)

The correct answer is, "no".

So what Mary tells God to do (your language, not mine) can only be precisely in line with what God wills anyway.

[ebb tide]

There is no need for the mass:

Sure there is. At the Last Supper when Jesus Christ consecrated bread and wine into His Body and Blood, He said, Do this in memory of Me.

That can only be done validly in either Catholic or Orthodox Masses.