Posted on 10/09/2018 4:09:28 PM PDT by ebb tide
Ping
I wasn’t sure if you posted the entire article so I went to the link. He didn’t mention Abp Lefebvre.
Wow. Thank you for this post.
Thanks for posting. I give the article 80% and B-.
Many good points. The positive is that the author provides references for future research. The negative is that the author makes deceptive arguments, such as false either or, hasty generalization, poisoning the well, and attacking the motive. Sad.
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI “were swimming in a lake of Kool-Aid rather than the ocean of Tradition.” False.
The author is swimming in the pool of frustration. Probably.
The author listed some of the cardinals appointed by JPII and Benedict XVI, can you defend those appointments?
Brilliant, brilliant. This is the best-expressed and least partisan - that is, not a “traddie” crowing about his own special isolated world - statement I have ever read. Kwasniewski sums up the entire problem, assigns blame where it is due but doesn’t dwell on it, and draws back the curtain to reveal that he has found the kidnapped True Church.
Yes, bring back the Old Mass and the old calendar and the old office - and I don’t care about the language, it can be in Latin, vernacular (great translations had already been done before VII) or a mixture of the two. But bring it back and the Faith that it expresses will burst forth again. And that’s precisely why the VII crowd in power now is so terrified of it.
Maybe Bergoglio’s attempt to destroy the Church, carrying out the project set into motion by VII, will ultimately bring back the true Church.
I care about the language; it should remain Latin. After the intentional mistranslation of the words of the Consecration of the Blood of Christ "pro multis" into "for all" rather the correct words, "for many", by some bishops conferences but not all of them, and being tolerated for decades, we should have learned our lesson by now.
bump
The chart showing which pope elevated the bishops and cardinals reinforces my thought that the Church cannot be saved in our lifetimes. The rot runs too deep. I believe the few true Catholics left in the Western world will join with the African Catholics to form the smaller more vibrant Church. At least BXVI got that part right. I will go with the traditional when the time comes.
Simply returning to "Traditional Catholicism" will NOT solve our problems. Our problems germinated and grew in "Traditional Catholicism".
Not every priest, bishop, cardinal and lay Catholic, at the time, bought into VCII. And those who didn’t were persecuted mercilessly.
VCII doesn’t get a pass.
Bttt
Read what I wrote. Your comments are nonresponsive.
I did no such thing. I can only again challenge you to read what I wrote. The first part of my comment is almost a tautology; the second part is a reasonable conclusion from it.
Let's try it this way:
Name for me all the priests, bishops, and cardinals who participated in the Second Vatican Council who were NOT raised, educated, and ordained in "Traditional Catholicism". Think about it before you respond. After you give me that lengthy list of names, we can proceed with our discussion.
`
Name me every sister, brother, priest, bishop and cardinal of that time who protested or rejected the VC II novelites. Name every priest and sister during that time who left their vocations, or even their faith, during that time and I'll gladly continue the "discussion".
You may want to give VCII a pass; but I will never do so.
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