[Cathollic Caucus] Vatican II at 56: ...

Rorate Caeli ^ | October 11, 2018 | New Catholic

[ebb tide]

Vatican II at 56: Like all Totalitarianisms of the 20th Century, Vatican II will still cause great havoc

The Second Vatican Council was opened in Rome exactly 56 years ago, on October 11, 1962. John XXIII had chosen this day, the Feast of the Divine Motherhood of the Blessed Virgin, a memento of the Council of Ephesus, as the day of its beginning. Irony of ironies: the whirlwind generated by the Council that would almost extinguish the Traditional liturgy of the Roman Church included the abolition of the Feast on this day and the transformation of the Octave Day of Christmas in a similar solemnity.

There are several ways to understand Vatican II, but one has perhaps been overlooked. It is often said that the Council was a "reaction" of transformed European bishops, "horrified" by the Second World War. And yet... those were men of the 20th century, marked by the great movements of the 20th century, both of which -- Communism and Fascism/National-Socialism -- were characterized by a hatred of the past and tradition, and a love for the New Man, the New Society, the New World. All things, all traditions, all families, all institutions, and all individuals that were obstacles to the construction of the New Socialist State, the New People, the New Volk were to be abolished forever.

The Church had stood as a fortress against both menaces, but, within the Church, despite the best efforts of Saint Pius X, the yeast of Modernism had never been scoured away. No wonder that John XXIII's imprudent call for the Council woke up all men who were imbued with the spirit of the time, and this spirit was the same of the totalitarianisms: hatred of Tradition, an urge to purge the past, the need to build a new Church, actually a new "People of God": Das Volk Gottes.

We traditional and conservative Catholics have often thought that the end of the nightmare that began on that October 11, 56 years ago, was about to come. They tried to end everything, even the most cherished legacy of our Fathers in the Faith, the Traditional Latin Mass. And they almost succeeded, had it not been for a faithful remnant. Again and again, the hopes of faithful Catholics have been dashed.

And it has only gotten worse: Francis is practically a caricature of a Vatican II liberal. Just as all totalitarian regimes, the "Conciliar Church" creates a destructive vortex, in which the whole Volk has to be completely wiped out with the leader: in our case, the leader is an abstract idea, the "Spirit of Vatican II".

Yet our hope remains that this too shall pass: just as the peoples were not destroyed after their totalitarian leaders died, our Church, greater than any single national people, will remain standing, with the Cross of her Bridegroom, Savior of Mankind:

Dignus est Agnus, qui occisus est, accipere virtutem, et divinitatem, et sapientiam, et fortitudinem, et honorem, et gloriam, et benedictionem. Et omnem creaturam, quæ in cælo est, et super terram, et sub terra, et quæ sunt in mari, et quæ in eo : omnes audivi dicentes : Sedenti in throno, et Agno, benedictio et honor, et gloria, et potestas in sæcula sæculorum. Amen.

[ebb tide]

Catholic Caucus

Full title:

Vatican II at 56: Like all Totalitarianisms of the 20th Century, Vatican II will still cause great havoc

[FES0844]

I remember. He opened the windows & the flight of the Nuns began.

[heterosupremacist]

I read several books about Roncalli, and I have nothing to say against him, or his Papacy. If he knew where the post-conciliar Church would be 56 years hence, I believe he would be horrified. My opinion. Rebuttal?

[piusv]

Horrified by Vatican II’s ecumenism?

[Mach9]

One of the very few facts surrounding Vat II and Roncalli is the condition of the Church he inherited—never stronger, never larger than under the pontificate of Pius XII. What need for reform? If the seeds of heresy existed in 1962, they should have been exterminated rather than nurtured.

[heterosupremacist]

piusv wrote:

Horrified by Vatican II’s ecumenism?

Yes, exactly. Ecumenism, among others...

[heterosupremacist]

Mach9 wrote:

One of the very few facts surrounding Vat II and Roncalli is the condition of the Church he inherited—never stronger, never larger than under the pontificate of Pius XII. What need for reform? If the seeds of heresy existed in 1962, they should have been exterminated rather than nurtured.

Interesting question, “What need for reform”?

IDK, do you?

[piusv]

I have seen a number of quotes from John XXIII which strongly suggest that he was in favor of ecumenism. I don’t think he would be horrified at all.

[heterosupremacist]

piusv wrote: I have seen a number of quotes from John XXIII which strongly suggest that he was in favor of ecumenism. I don’t think he would be horrified at all. Ecumenism to the contemporary degree? Koran kissing, Mosque praying, Popes who actually implied, "the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are the same God of the moslems" and we pray to the same deity - allah is for the 'religion of peace' Ishmaelites. GRRR!

[piusv]

Let me check on some quotes and I’ll get back to you....

[piusv]

"Unfortunately, the entire Christian family has not yet fully attained this visible unity in truth. The Catholic Church, therefore, considers it her duty to work actively so that there may be fulfilled the great mystery of that unity which Jesus Christ invoked with fervent prayer from his heavenly Father on the eve of his sacrifice." - John XXIII, Opening Speech for Vatican II Council, 1962

Compared with:

And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends. For authors who favor this view are accustomed, times almost without number, to bring forward these words of Christ: "That they all may be one.... And there shall be one fold and one shepherd,"[14] with this signification however: that Christ Jesus merely expressed a desire and prayer, which still lacks its fulfillment. - Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, "On Religious Unity", 1928

[Mach9]

When something ain’t broke, ya don’t fix it.

What exactly did “opening the windows” accomplish? Certainly nothing, repeat nothing, good. What need had the church for the eventual loss of the universal Latin/Tridentine Mass? What good has “ecumenism” accomplished? Conversions have fallen rather than increased—far from comprising “one fold.” Every existing heresy and modernist ideology was courteously entertained and seldom quashed. It doesn’t take a whole lot of dots to connect Vatican II to the crisis we know today.