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No, Christmas is Not Pagan. Just Stop.
Ancient Faith Ministries ^ | December 5, 2018 | Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick

Posted on 12/07/2018 7:10:02 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi

Well, it’s time for a good Christmas rant. This requires a rant, because every year, we see the same ignorant silliness. (Sorry, but it’s just true.) Supposedly, Christmas is secretly pagan, secretly syncretist, secretly a co-opting of pagan stuff and ignorantly claiming it to be Christian. But the truth about these things is so available that it’s literally staring out at you even from Wikipedia.

Well, if you are one of the people who says this stuff, I’ve got a lot of problems with you people. Let the airing of grievances begin. (And it’s not even Festivus yet!)


TOPICS: History; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: christianity; christmas; holidays; paganism; revisionisthistory; waronchristmas
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Heading off the inevitable arguments regarding Christmas...
1 posted on 12/07/2018 7:10:02 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Even if it isn’t connected to previous pagan festivals, there is still zero Biblical basis to ‘celebrate’ the birth of Christ on 12/25 or any other day. It’s nitpicking but the amount of idolatry involved is disturbing and not supported in any Gospel or epistle.


2 posted on 12/07/2018 7:22:19 AM PST by B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Christ was a Jew not a pagan.


3 posted on 12/07/2018 7:22:35 AM PST by Phlap (REDNECK@LIBARTS.EDU)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

It’s no more, or less, pagan than Halloween.


4 posted on 12/07/2018 7:24:17 AM PST by discostu (Every gun makes its own tune.)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Putting a tree in your house sounds pretty pagan to me.


5 posted on 12/07/2018 7:24:42 AM PST by AppyPappy (How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?)
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle
All in one sentence.

Well done !

6 posted on 12/07/2018 7:26:37 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true; I have no proof .... but they're true.)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Christmas (”Christ’s Mass” or “Celebration”) is just that — a celebration of the birth of Christ. Since the exact date of His birth is not known, an arbitrary date was chosen for the event. It is NOT the DAY we celebrate but the EVENT itself. And, more precisely, the salvation it brought — and continues to bring — to mankind.

The date itself is meaningless.


7 posted on 12/07/2018 7:26:43 AM PST by IronJack
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle
I like Christmas, especially since IMHO Christians have done a better job lately of re-claiming it for Christ-centric purposes.

About 12/25, it's interesting. There was an old early Byzantine era belief (that I think originated among Arab Christians, but don't hold me to that) that anyone God ordained to be a prophet wound up dying on the anniversary of his conception (not birth). Since Jesus is perfect it was believed his mother was pregnant with Him exactly 9 months, not a day longer or shorter. And since they had a fair amount of certainty (they believed) for dating the day He was crucified (they believed 3/25), they did the math and came up with 12/25 for His birth. Since nobody else in the early European world could come up with a better date, 12/25 stuck in our western Christian culture.

I'm not saying we should all believe He was born on 12/25 like that today. I'm just saying it wasn't 100% pagan in origin or anything like that and 12/25 is as good as any day.

8 posted on 12/07/2018 7:30:32 AM PST by Tell It Right (Offense sells Sooner tickets. Defense wins championships.)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

The holly bushes, fir trees, snow, sleighs, mistletoe, yule logs, reindeer ....were all there in the manger 2018 years ago.


9 posted on 12/07/2018 7:33:12 AM PST by babble-on
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle
Even if it isn’t connected to previous pagan festivals, there is still zero Biblical basis to ‘celebrate’ the birth of Christ on 12/25 or any other day. It’s nitpicking but the amount of idolatry involved is disturbing and not supported in any Gospel or epistle.

I happen to agree. Christmas is no longer or has it been in ages about celebrating the birth of Christ himself. It is just one more 'pagan' holiday simply designed to make money off of His namesake.

10 posted on 12/07/2018 7:47:17 AM PST by Ron H.
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To: Ron H.

Well this could become an endless debate.

Christmas is both things. It is a celebration of the birth of Christ, and a secular celebration.

I think we all agree that the Red-Nosed Reindeer have nothing to do with Christ.

I think we all agree that giving presents and receiving presents from loved ones, has nothing to do with Christ.

Yule logs and Christmas trees have nothing to do with Christ.

Everyone celebrates according to their own traditions and religious beliefs.


11 posted on 12/07/2018 8:01:24 AM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle

>> Even if it isn’t connected to previous pagan festivals, there is still zero Biblical basis to ‘celebrate’ the birth of Christ on 12/25 or any other day. <<

Yes there is. Mind you, it might not be the day of Christ’s physical birth, but it is a day Christ observed as the day when the Spirit of God indwelled among Man:

Many people miss the significance of the Feast of the Dedication, which occurs on the 25th of the month most similar to December (although usually a few weeks earlier). It’s the day Jesus declared that He was the Temple of God. It’s ALSO the day when the Jews believed that the Spirit of God descended from Heaven into the Temple. So it’s the day He chose to mark his incarnation. But whether it’s his birthday or not, Jesus observed the Feast of the Dedication (John 10:22).

Was it the day of his birth? Arguments that shepherds would not have been with their sheep in pasture have been nullified by an understanding of the effects of the Roman Warm Period. But there’s another biblical clue:

Nisan is the start of the liturgical year in the Hebrew calendar; indeed the start of the world. If Eve’s fertility cycle began with her creation, Nisan 15 when she was able to conceive. It was also the day of delivery from Egypt, of the passover, and, according to one of two conflicting calendars, the day Jesus died* and was “conceived” into Heaven, as ancient Christians called bodily death. This day of Christ’s death was observed in the ancient Church as March 25. (Due to divergence of Julian and Gregorian calendars, it’s now April 6 on Western calendars.) But this was NOT Good Friday; that day moved in the calendar in relation to Passover, of course.. Rather, it was celebrated as the day of Jesus’ conception. And December 25 is nine months later.

[* Questions about the timing of passover? Curiously, the FIRST Temple seems to have been dedicated on Nisan 14 (”And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month.” — Ezra 6:17) Thus, Jesus followed a biblical precedent by celebrating Passover on the 14th in the Last Supper and on the 15th in the Crucifixion. Should we have expected Jesus to be born on the Feast of Sukkot? When the Temple was rededicated, the passages which establish the Feast of the Dedication, 1 Maccabees 4 and 2 Maccabees 1, depict it as a delayed celebration of the Feast of Sukkot.]


12 posted on 12/07/2018 8:06:13 AM PST by dangus ("The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops" -- St. Athanasius)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Too bad none of the Pilgrim Founders are left on Earth. We could ask them their opinion on this question.

Of course, we know what their answer would be.


13 posted on 12/07/2018 8:07:45 AM PST by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle
Even if it isn’t connected to previous pagan festivals, there is still zero Biblical basis to ‘celebrate’ the birth of Christ on 12/25 or any other day. It’s nitpicking but the amount of idolatry involved is disturbing and not supported in any Gospel or epistle.

True, true and true! Then there is the proximity to the winter solstice which is at the core of pagan worship.

14 posted on 12/07/2018 8:10:06 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Vote your bible.)
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle

Passover began in AD 30 on April 7, according to the Gregorian calendar. However, this was March 25 according to the Julian calendar, which now trails the Gregorian calendar by 13 days. Hence, Christmas (December 25) is celebrated on what we call January 7 by the Eastern churches.


15 posted on 12/07/2018 8:11:34 AM PST by dangus ("The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops" -- St. Athanasius)
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle
Even if it isn’t connected to previous pagan festivals, there is still zero Biblical basis to ‘celebrate’ the birth of Christ on 12/25 or any other day. It’s nitpicking but the amount of idolatry involved is disturbing and not supported in any Gospel or epistle.

On the other hand "Christmas" is an opportunity to talk about the birth of Jesus to people and it is offensive to heathens. So that makes it useful to Christians to give witness to the reason for the joy in their hearts.

16 posted on 12/07/2018 8:12:47 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Vote your bible.)
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To: DungeonMaster

>> True, true and true! Then there is the proximity to the winter solstice which is at the core of pagan worship. <<

It’s pure myth that the Latin feast of Saturnalia was on Dec. 25, or even the winter solstice. It was on Dec. 17. Dies Natalis Sol Invictus was celebrated on Dec. 25, but it was created only three centuries AFTER Jesus’ death.


17 posted on 12/07/2018 8:18:02 AM PST by dangus ("The floor of Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops" -- St. Athanasius)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

I don’t see how anyone can assert Christmas is not pagan. And it is a degraded materialistic, debauched affront to our Lord put forward as a counterfeit by the Enemy.


18 posted on 12/07/2018 8:23:36 AM PST by kaehurowing
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To: Carpe Cerevisi

...decorating evergreens is in the Bible?

Yule logs? Mistletoe?

What was the exact date of the birth of Christ anyway?

Why’d they choose three days after the winter solstice?


19 posted on 12/07/2018 8:23:50 AM PST by Tzimisce
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To: B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle; Carpe Cerevisi
There's no "Biblical" basis to correct or exhort people on the Internet. Nor to falsify your identity with an assumed name not given you by God (unless God really *did* re-name you Ms. or Mr. B-Rizzle Fo-Shizzle).

With all due respect, you are acting manner "not supported by any Gospel or epistle", as you say.

What the heck are you doing here?

20 posted on 12/07/2018 8:24:53 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("I ain't denyin' the women are foolish. The Good Lord made 'em to match the men.")
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