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To: Carpe Cerevisi

Christ was a Jew not a pagan.


3 posted on 12/07/2018 7:22:35 AM PST by Phlap (REDNECK@LIBARTS.EDU)
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To: Phlap
So? I'm a Gentile, not a pagan.

And Jesus didn't only come for the Jews.

But you know that.

21 posted on 12/07/2018 8:26:08 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("I ain't denyin' the women are foolish. The Good Lord made 'em to match the men.")
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To: Phlap

Great point. Feast of Saturnalia was celebrated long before Jesus was on the scene, as early as 133 BCE. It was a feast to the agriculture god Saturn on the Winter Soltice, as a celebration of the birth of the unconquered sun (dies solis invicti nati) or commonly referred to as Natalis Invicti. The people celebrated with wreaths of greenery and trees, signifying the growth of the living and rebirth of the dead. Giving gifts, singing, socializing and feasting were the customs to honor the new birth of the sun. The Catholic Enclycopedia states it well when noted: In the fourth century, Chrysostom, “del Solst. Et Æquin.” (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: “Sed et dominus noster nascitur mense decembris . . . VIII Kal. Ian. . . . Sed et Invicti Natalem appelant. Quis utique tam invictus nisi dominus noster? . . . Vel quod dicant Solis esse natalem, ipse est Sol iustitiæ.” — “But Our Lord, too, is born in the month of December . . . the eight before the calends of January [25 December] . . ., But they call it the ‘Birthday of the Unconquered’. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord . . .? Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun, He is the Sun of Justice.” The final note that was made in the 17th century version was that even though the date might be similar in origin to the Sun Feasts, it is a wonderful tradition that brings people together. I agree with what the Catholics proposed in their notes that the thing I like about Christmas is that it can be a time to bring families together (although it can also be a wedge to drive them apart). It is true that the early church incorporated many pagan rituals and holidays into the liturgy because it was needed to assimilate foreign cultures with common holidays. A failure to recognize Christmas does not necessarily reflect on a person’s belief in Jesus as Messiah, but does reflect on a wariness of Church Traditions. I don’t believe that there is any credible proof of the date when Jesus of Nazereth was born. Nor has a body been found to verify when he died (except there is enormous circumstantial, historical and Biblical evidence to suspect when.) In my humble opinion.


28 posted on 12/07/2018 9:13:03 AM PST by richardtavor
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