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"I beseech you to pray unto our Lord for me" ~ Ancient Roots of the Doctrine of Purgatory
Gloria Romanorum ^ | 9/2/17 | Florentius

Posted on 03/13/2019 6:40:19 AM PDT by Antoninus

In part one of this post, I looked at the vision of Perpetua—one of the earliest authentic Christian documents to describe directly a Purgatory-like state and to highlight the efficacy of prayer petitions for the dead.

Others writing during the patristic age also expounded upon this idea in more or less detail, among them St. Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, St. Augustine of Hippo, and St. Caesarius of Arles. One of the most clear references to Purgatory appears in a late 4th century work by Saint Gregory of Nyssa, entitled: “On the Soul and the Resurrection”. St. Gregory writes:

“For [God], the one goal is this: the perfection of the universe through each man individually, the fulfillment of our nature. Some of us are purged of evil in this life, and some are cured of it through fire in the after-life, some have not had the experience of good and evil in life here….The different degrees of virtue or vice in our life will be revealed in our participating more quickly or more slowly in the blessedness we hope for. The extent of the healing with depend on the amount of evil present in each person. The healing of the soul will be purification from evil and this cannot be accomplished without suffering…”
Building upon this notion about 200 years later, another Gregory—Pope Saint Gregory the Great—was the first to set forth the notion of Purgatory as Catholics now understand it. As part of his famous Dialogues, he wrote:
“…It is plain that in such state as a man departs out of this life, in the same he is presented in judgment before God. But yet we must believe that before the day of judgment there is a Purgatory fire for certain small sins: because our Savior says, “That he which speaketh blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, that it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come [Matthew 12:32].”
Here we see Gregory offering a scriptural proof for Purgatory, out of the mouth of Jesus Himself. He elaborates on this point, citing Saint Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians, chapter 3:
“Out of which sentence we learn, that some sins are forgiven in this world, and some other may be pardoned in the next: for that which is denied concerning one sin, is consequently understood to be granted touching some other. But yet this, as I said, we have not to believe but only concerning little and very small sins, as, for example, daily idle talk, immoderate laughter, negligence in the care of our family (which kind of offenses scarce can they avoid, that know in what sort sin is to be shunned), ignorant errors in matters of no great weight: all which sins be punished after death, if men procured not pardon and remission for them in their lifetime: for when St. Paul said, that “Christ is the foundation:” and by and by added: “And if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: the work of every one, of what kind it is, the fire shall try. If any man's work abide which he built thereupon, he shall receive reward; if any man’s work burn, he shall suffer detriment, but himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.”
Gregory then goes on to explain St. Paul’s meaning, drawing a distinction between what we would later call mortal and venial sins:
“For although these words may be understood of the fire of tribulation, which men suffer in this world: yet if any will interpret them of the fire of Purgatory, which shall be in the next life: then must he carefully consider, that the Apostle said not that he may be saved by fire, that buildeth upon this foundation iron, brass, or lead, that is, the greater sort of sins, and therefore more hard, and consequently not remissible in that place: but wood, hay, stubble, that is, little and very light sins, which the fire doth easily consume. Yet we have here further to consider, that none can be there purged, no, not for the least sins that be, unless in his lifetime he deserved by virtuous works to find such favor in that place.” [Dialogues, Book 4:39]

Click here to read the rest.


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: eschatology; heaven; hell; purgatory
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For the feast of Saint Gregory the Great which was yesterday on the traditional calendar.

This is quite a long article including additional passages from Saint Gregory the Great, so I'm excerpting.

1 posted on 03/13/2019 6:40:19 AM PDT by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
[I]t is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrew 9:27.
2 posted on 03/13/2019 6:44:29 AM PDT by Jim W N (MAGA by restoring the Gospel of the Grace of Christ and our Free Constitutional Republic!)
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To: Antoninus

And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament. How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

So great that later Christians were so much wiser than them, and finally got it....


3 posted on 03/13/2019 6:45:05 AM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Antoninus

You are preaching a FALSE GOSPEL

You are now rebuked in the Name of Jesus Christ from preaching this false ‘gospel”

Galatians 1:8

“”But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.””


4 posted on 03/13/2019 6:51:44 AM PDT by RevelationDavid
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To: Jim 0216

“[I]t is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Hebrew 9:27.”

Purgatory in no way stops anyone from dying ONCE - in fact that’s what has to happen for you to get there.

So what’s your point?


5 posted on 03/13/2019 6:56:28 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: AnalogReigns

“And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament.”

How many words in the NT from the Apostles are about the doctrines of the Trinity?

Canon of scripture?


6 posted on 03/13/2019 6:57:59 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: RevelationDavid

“You are preaching a FALSE GOSPEL”

It’s not a false gospel. Purgatory is about Christ’s grace cleansing souls. That is part of the gospel.


7 posted on 03/13/2019 6:59:08 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: RevelationDavid
Did you actually read the article? You are saying that Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory the Great preached a false Gospel -- and that we didn't figure out the true Gospel until a millennium later.

Doesn't that seem just a bit odd?
8 posted on 03/13/2019 7:13:42 AM PDT by Antoninus ("In Washington, swamp drain you.")
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To: Antoninus

If Purgatory is needed to cleanse souls then why was Yeshua crucified? His dying saved those of us who believe in Him. If Purgatory is needed then it is by works and not the blood of Christ that saves us. Don’t need any more “cleansing”.


9 posted on 03/13/2019 7:14:37 AM PDT by SkyDancer ( ~ Just Consider Me A Random Fact Generator ~ Eat Sleep Fly Repeat ~)
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To: AnalogReigns
And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament.

Another one who didn't read. Gregory the Great cites both Christ himself and Saint Paul in his writings on Purgatory. See above.
10 posted on 03/13/2019 7:16:03 AM PDT by Antoninus ("In Washington, swamp drain you.")
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To: vladimir998

If we can in any way pay for our sins, Christ’s death was insufficient.

The Catholic doctrine of purgatory is error, and a false gospel.


11 posted on 03/13/2019 7:16:22 AM PDT by ecomcon
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To: Antoninus

Typical heresy of adding to scripture throu bringing ideas to the. I left.

“4th century work by Saint Gregory of Nyssa, ”

Funny they call this “ancient”... more than 500 years after Christ.

There is no purgatory in Scripture.


12 posted on 03/13/2019 7:23:16 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ecomcon

“If we can in any way pay for our sins, Christ’s death was insufficient.”

1) Purgatory is NOT about any human person paying for his or her sins.

2) The existence of Purgatory in no way at all means Christ’s death was insufficient because it is precisely Christ’s death on the Cross and the grace won by it that powers the cleansing we call Purgatory or Final Theosis.

“The Catholic doctrine of purgatory is error, and a false gospel.”

No, the error is in your understanding. Maybe you should learn what Purgatory is before you post attacks getting it wrong.


13 posted on 03/13/2019 7:23:20 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: Antoninus

“and that we didn’t figure out the true Gospel until a millennium later.“

God has always *and in every age* had His people who knew the truth and refused to bow their knees to Baal.


14 posted on 03/13/2019 7:26:04 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; Antoninus
Funny they call this “ancient”... more than 500 years after Christ.

...and one who can't count. 4th century is the 300s. So 300 years after Christ....and only a few decades after the last great persecution.

So answer me this. If Gregory of Nyssa got this wrong....then *why the flip didn't anyone correct him*?

Find me one theologian of the 300s that said "Gee Greg...you're flat wrong on this one." ONE.

So either the whole church..every single Christian theologian was corrupted *at the same time*....

OR, more likely,

you are the one who was wrong and this is what the early Church believed from the beginning.

Oh but wait...I can think of two people who "corrected" Gregory of Nyssa. Luther. 1500 years after Christ. And you. 2000 years after Christ.

I'll take 300 over a couple of millenia, thank you very much.

15 posted on 03/13/2019 7:48:00 AM PDT by Claud
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To: vladimir998

Roman Catholic theology, for example, allows for prayers both to the dead and on behalf of them. But even Catholic authorities admit that there is no explicit authorization for prayers on behalf of the dead in the sixty-six books of canonical Scripture. Instead, they appeal to the Apocrypha (2 Maccabees 12:45), church tradition, the decree of the Council of Trent, etc., to defend the practice.


16 posted on 03/13/2019 7:57:50 AM PDT by SkyDancer ( ~ Just Consider Me A Random Fact Generator ~ Eat Sleep Fly Repeat ~)
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To: AnalogReigns
How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

Missed it did they?

"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."
What does saved as by fire mean?

When Christ says in Matt 12:32 "but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come", what does that imply?

17 posted on 03/13/2019 8:01:19 AM PDT by Claud
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To: vladimir998
1) Purgatory is NOT about any human person paying for his or her sins.

Your own catechism says "expiation" ...

18 posted on 03/13/2019 8:04:39 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: Claud; Antoninus
From the epitaph of Abercius, a bishop who died in Phrygia ca. A.D. 167:

"He that discerneth these things, every fellow-believer, let him pray for Abercius"

Carved right in stone, the evidence of prayers for the dead. Christians who were buried in the first centuries asked the people reading their gravestones to pray for them.

Why? Why would they do that?

19 posted on 03/13/2019 8:13:53 AM PDT by Claud
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To: AnalogReigns
And yet, not a word about Purgatory from the Apostles in the New Testament. How sad that Peter, Paul, John, James, Matthew, etc. all missed this important doctrine.

Or Immaculate conception, or assumption, or a Pope, or a Christian priesthood, or a Christian Priesthood that must be manned by unmarried effeminate men, or nuns, or transubstantiation....

20 posted on 03/13/2019 8:16:37 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (...the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom the world has been crucified to me.)
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