Posted on 08/03/2019 4:50:08 AM PDT by metmom
Nope ...
Nada
Unclear if they were believers ... you cannot assume it ...
Because I am challenging your false doctrine?
Be at ease, I'm not offended ... I have been relegated to the "merely religious" many time by those in your creed.
If nothing else, this scariest verse in the Bible should give you pause ... and force you to seriously consider repenting from false doctrine. You have gone way beyond the text in your imagination.
Matt. 7:22-23
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'
Really.
There’s so little taking responsibility for our actions these days.
Blame-shifting has passed down through the human race since Adam.
Ask and you shall receive......
They also do through sin in people’s lives.
We give them a right to build strongholds through patterns of sin that we don’t deal with.
Father Gabriel Amortth and Fatherr Chad Ripperger are good resources for what should and should not be done by lay people with regard to the casting out of demons. For the laity, prayers of deliverance can be very effective, but care has to be taken that those doing the praying have some form of natural authority over the one in distress. So a father can pray very effectively for his spouse or children or parents or grandparents, but he should not attempt the same for a friend or aquaintance.
It is the Blood of Christ that we invoke to cover us and free us from demonic connections and acitivity. Our power comes not from ourselves but from being part of His Mystical Body, for it is His Blood, His Name, and His sacrifice on Calvary that has redeemed and saved us from sin and eternal death.
Im not RC ...
That does not matter. Everything I said is borne out in practice.
As far as having authority to cast out demons, that power was given by Jesus Christ directly to the Apostles, who transmit such authority to their successors, the bishops.
Consequently, no exorcist in his right mind would attempt casting out demons without first getting permission from the local ordinary. So someone like Father Ripperger, if called upon a case in another diocese than his own (where he also already has permission to use the bishop’s authority) would first gain permission from the local bishop.
Ripperger explains very succinctly in his conference talks that the demons are bound to respect the authority that each bishop has received from the Apostles who received it originally from Jesus Christ Himself.
Here is a link:
http://sensustraditionis.org/multimedia/conferences/
Thank you for your interest in the ministry of deliverance, that is, the casting out of demons/devils/evil spirits by the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.
Forgive me, please, for having neglected a definitive verse.
Mark 16: 17 -
“14 ¶ Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
As you have indicated, you are not a New Testament believer, and so not a Christian, a believer in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. 28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children’s crumbs. 29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
According to this verse, deliverance is “bread for the children”, not for unbelievers.
It is however, evident that you need this ministry urgently. God bless you.
Thank you. I appear to have inadvertently asked for a reason to look up Bible verses on the ministry of deliverance.
Of great assistance is the software called PureBibleSearch, available for free download for computer or phone. I find it invaluable.
You have misunderstood ... I AM a NT believer ... I asked you to provide Biblical evidence (esp. from the epistles as they are instructions to the church) about casting out demons from NT believers. The passages you have cited from the gospels and Acts do not involve the casting out of demons from a NT believer and I have indicated that with a simple "Not a NT believer" ... not applying to myself, but the passage you cited.
Like I said, you cannot produce a command in the epistles that indicate casting demons out of NT believers is prescriptive. You only extrapolate incorrectly those episodes in the narrative portions of scripture that involve OT people without the indwelling Holy Spirit (which is THE distinctive of a NT believer).
Your interpretation of Mark 16 has several problems.
First, there is a known textual variant in vs. 9-20. Verse 9-20 are not in the earliest manuscripts. I personally believe Mark ends too abruptly at vs 8 and 9-20 IS part of the original, but there are scholars more fluent in this study than me, so I am not dogmatic about it being included. However, since the best scholars in the world are unsure, we should at least NOT develop doctrine based on those verses.
Second, the text itself explains that those signs were spoken to the apostles (vs. 14) ... and were fulfilled by the apostles (vs. 20). We have nothing to do with it ...
I have given you over half a dozen verses in Mark, Luke, and Acts regarding the casting out of devils - also known as evil spirits- by Jesus, the Apostles, and the directives of Our Lord Jesus Christ himself to do so, and you are fussing that none of the verses are from the Epistles written by Paul, who cast out devils, and specifically a spirit of divination, himself.
While some of these examples were likely unbelievers, there is no reason to believe that the man in the synagogue (Book of Mark) was not.
What exactly is your reason for attempting to cast doubt on the validity of the ministry of deliverance, sir?
I specifically asked for an example of casting out demons from NT believers. A NT believer, of necessity, has the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit ... whereas the old covenant did not provide the permanent indwelling.
What exactly is your reason for attempting to cast doubt on the validity of the ministry of deliverance, sir?
Because the practice is unbiblical. I ask for examples in the epistles because the epistles are letters written as instruction to the churches ... of which this current age is a part.
I don't see any command in the epistles to directly confront demons ...
I have waited for your answer ... but I know I am waiting in vain ... there is not command in scripture.
“I don’t see any command in the epistles to directly confront demons. . . “
______________________________________________
The followers of the Lord Jesus Christ were told in Mark 16: 17 “ And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;. . .”
These are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ himself. Look at them. They are identifying characteristics of followers of Jesus Christ.
And your response was to cast doubt in the hearts of believers regarding the last twelve verses of the book of Mark.
Shame on you, sir.
NO ... they were not just followers ... read the text !!!
They were the apostles ...
vs. 14 ... He appeared to the eleven
vs. 15 ... He said to them ... (who? them! ... nearest antecedent ... the 11 apostles!)
vs. 17 ... These signs ...
vs. 20 ... and confirmed the word by the signs that followed
You are reading into the text that which your experience tells you is true ... you are not getting this from the text of scripture. If everyone could do signs then Paul could not have used them as a proof of apostleship ...
2 Corinthians 12:12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.
It was not just the apostles.
Luke 10: 17-20
17 ¶ And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Sir, I am now quite curious.
Why are you so desperate to prove that the ministry of deliverance is either unbiblical or not for ordinary Christians?
I think that before we continue any further, it is important to know whether one is dealing with a saved or a lost person. I am concerned for your salvation.
Let us discuss your personal belief - among believers in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, it is known as a testimony of salvation.
Have you one? Do you believe that you are going to Heaven when you die? Why?
What exactly do you believe?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.