HONDURANS PAINT SWASTIKA ON AMERICAN FLAG, SET IT ON FIRE; WAVE HONDURAN FLAGS, GIVE US THE FINGER

now we definatly know they are all democrats

Globally, comparing murder rates per 1 million.

1. Honduras 913.5

2. El Salvador 688.59

7. Guatamala 386.29

99 USA 42.01

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate-per-million-people. Those figures are compiled from 2011-2012 statistics.

As President Trump said, they are not sending their brightest and best from these shitholes.

A great comment is one that puts the burden on one person? Really?

FR used to be great because subject matter experts could come and contribute so that people would know the inside baseball on a myriad of issues to make people smarter.

Now it has become a forum of group-think, and anyone who has a different angle is belittled.

I have an idiot on this forum insisting the US government's missteps in Honduras, wasn't the US government because it was done by the Obama administration. And then he calls me out for that. WTF?

I was working in a US Embassy at the time in that region. The actions an embassy does or does not do is derived from the State Department via the US government.....that entity that the citizenry elects. You can't bloody well pretend a Democrat liberal US government and its policies.....isn't the mother loving US government. Ridiculous.

I'll say this for the last time:

(1) The US government sanctioned and worked with other countries and NGOs to follow suit to sanction Honduras for following its constitution, and in doing so, eroded its constitution, to the point where it is undergoing a crisis today in its over-reliance on the United Nations. Deposing Zelaya was not a coup (even though the US government said it was). It was just, right, and consistent with the Honduran constitution.

(2) The US government prevented Ricardo Maduro from winning against the gangs, and that had a cascading effect in Central America. How? He was killing them at the cyclic rate, using a whole of government approach.

In summary, the inability for Central American countries to attract businesses and ensure domestic tranquility is a result of our error, and as a consequence, those same families are fleeing. We partially own it.

It seems to me the conservative view is (1) recognize what was screwed up by previous administrations, and then (2) seek to unravel it.

But to act like this is an invasion force we had nothing to do with (including our weak immigration laws) is an emotional, baseless claim that doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't do anything but parrot low-information voters.

I'm in no ways bragging, but I was the first (that I know of) to state that it should be the US policy to encourage Central American countries to pass legislation to declare gangs terrorists. It would have had the same impact of the use of the word, "outlaw." You kill them where you see them. A few years after I departed, a certain government considered it. Pity it didn't have the full weight of the US government. It might have passed.

Don’t get mad at me. I am not against Latinos here legally. I am only objecting to “caravan” arriving illegally which could result in catastrophe for the children and adults and is irresponsible.

I am not anti the people. My wife’s sister played violin in the Mexico City Philharmonic a few years ago and we got to know a few of the musicians for a short time,my best buddy at work a few years ago was a former Mexican immigrant child laborer fruit picker here in MI who grew up to work with me at the university. One of y best student assistants was a half Scottish,half Mexican young woman who is an arch Constitutionalist (seeing everything through that filter). I have had several friends from Central America and our nephew has now lived in Chile for the past two years.

I still “need help” but I’m trying.
Sorry if I upset you.

Yep. That’s the one. What really won the battle was the death of the Khan. Half the Mongol forces went back home to determine the new Khan. The half sized Mongol force fought the Egyptians and lost. If the Khan had not died, Islam would have been wiped off the planet, but Mongols would have run the world. They say the hand guns or hand cannons the Egyptians used spooked the Mongolian horses. First time used in large numbers in the west.

Have you noticed that none of these people look like thin emaciated starving humans. Seem to be on the porky side.

The US state department does not represent the US people. We do not own their mistakes. Their 20 trillion dollar debt will be defaulted.

Thank you for the clarification. I thought you were equating Hispanics with Muslims.

You have some nice stories there.

Please never apologize for expressing your opinion. And don’t let anyone here bully you for doing so.

Sorry if I seemed harsh but your clarification rectified my misunderstanding.

Welcome to FR. We need good people.

Thank you for that.

Obama was the one who imposed the sanctions as I remember.

I have friends in Trujillo, Honduras and I’m sure they would agree with you completely.

So, who is it exactly that comes to a Nazi country for asylum?

Of course, the answer is that not one person in this so-called caravan is actually coming to this country to seek asylum. They are coming for one reason only, because they are being paid to do so upfront, and because they are being promised that they will be paid a tremendous amount (for them) in various types of welfare payments if they can get across the border and say the magic words to the ICE agents. Just as obviously, those people behind the scenes who are paying for all of this are doing so for their own reason, which is to begin the final coup de gras against this country by setting the precedent of a group of people being able to come here without our authorities having the right or duty to turn them away.

This so called caravan must be stopped, for two reasons. First, because it is not truly a bunch of refugees, but is primarily peopled by Young and fit males. Second, it is purposely taking place just before the midterm elections, with the obvious intent to significantly hurt the Republicans and Trump. This is all about raw power versus the rule of law. Everything that has been fought for in this country since its inception is literally at risk, as is all of the time and effort that was put into electing the most non-traditional President that we have had in over 100 years. This is Do or Die time for the proposition that we the people govern, rather than being Servants of those we have placed in power for those who have risen through the ranks of the bureaucracy.

These bastards think that we are a bunch of Nazis? Turn them away, but not before obtaining photographs, fingerprints and blood samples from all of them, so that none of them will be permitted to ever enter this country for any reason whatsoever.

You are most welcome. But yeah, we can't afford to say it was "Obama" and then do nothing to undo his screw-ups. Bush was only marginally better.

Love Trujillo. There is not a single Honduran I know, both inside my family and outside, who would disagree with me, and they are on both the left and right. Want to know why? It's the cold hard truth. I don't have to sell it. It is what it is.

Now we have morons here on FR calling for employment of forces inside Mexico, use of artillery, and all sorts of nonsense because it's an "invading force." BS.

Yeah, that will play well. Let's mow down women and children and see all of our influence disappear over night, globally; our diplomats and military presence expelled, our trade cut off, and China and Russia roll into Central America. They would LOVE ports and basing rights on our front doorstep, and the gigantic gas, oil, and mineral rights to La Mosquitia, Honduras. After indoctrination and total control of the region, then you will have Chinese nuclear intermediate ballistic missiles in Soto Cano Honduras, aimed at us, and Central American women servicing their troops instead of servicing the 18th Airborne Corps (because China is in a female shortage crisis). Yeah, that's a winning national strategy, brought to you by Free Republic.

Because of TPS, Central Americans have tasted that the US is great, and they are not going to remain in their houses, afraid to go out an live life. That cannot be ignored. It is in our national interest to help them make their countries prosperous and safe. Failing that, they are coming and we will always be ONE election away from a tsunami of migrants.

I do not know how your comment was putting the burden on one person. I still liked it, no echo chamber, opinion I want to think about.

I thought I was agreeing with you a lot, but sort of trying to explain people here being upset partly because you were catching flak you did not deserve on some issues. There are echos here, but it is NOT an echo chamber. Every thread does not have all the subject matter experts on it all the time though. Part of my compliment was that you seem to be one. A few things you think are going to get flak though, no surprise. You have been though provoking.

I do find like many that I am upset about the longstanding slow invasion of the US. It is not only Honduras. I worry about losing our “Orthodox Americanism” most by people taking power without understanding why we are have been salt (preservative) and light (understanding) to the world, which would be far worse if the special genius founding fathers with God had never invented us.

This was much of the point of the discussion. Invasion by people who seem to neither understand nor love the things that make America great. If they take full power with all the other groups not wanting Orthodox Americanism, our salt can lose its saltiness and our light not only goes under a bushel basket, it goes out. That will do no one any good, not even them, for they will have killed the golden goose in effect. We will have eaten our only seed corn. The idea that there should be no control over our borders seems insane.

So it is a type of invasion we were discussing, one folks want to stop, but how? They are employing human shields somewhat, not all intentionally, but SOME intentionally, to prevent us from stopping them. Frustrating to all.

The US has not been perfect about things in Central America and Honduras, especially under Obama, but we did not mess up enough that we now must feel obliged to immediately take on these endless unprecedented pushy (and illegal) groups, which in all likelihood are not only Hondurans.

But if you meant I was calling you out (maybe it was someone else you meant?), I certainly was not trying to do that.

Did I say Obama is not the US government? No. Nothing like that, I do not know where you got that from in what I wrote. (That “We the People” chose that guy certainly worries me though.)

Is it not obvious that the government in 2009 was under Obama, and we conservatives had little control in 2009? It’s the government — but I wanted to make the point that you were especially criticizing government we all disagree with, the 2009 Obama controlled government, which was far worse.

And I also totally agree with this you wrote:

“It seems to me the conservative view is (1) recognize what was screwed up by previous administrations, and then (2) seek to unravel it.”

Makes sense.

I probably disagree with you on the EXTENT of us screwing them up 10 years ago, but I already wrote I was mad about that even then.

But if we (under Obama especially it seems to me) screwed up especially badly then, even more than I know, then I DO want to hear your “inside baseball” aspects of just what we did during those dark days while Obama was hell bent on wrecking these USA.

You seem to have some ideas about stopping the gangs, etc. also. Ultimate corruption. It sounds like you think they can stop them themselves there. If so, great, I think that needs to happen. Can the US really help or not?

Central America does have its own longstanding problems there too. If we just tripped up an already very ill person, the original illness is still not our fault.

However, this you wrote is too broad and I disagree with it: “the inability for Central American countries to attract businesses and ensure domestic tranquility is a result of our error” — no, that it not our fault, though SOME of it may be our fault.

Fundamental corruption there has been and remains a massive issue. That may be the biggest thing we cannot fix in the way of things improving there. (We are starting to lose that battle here now too.)

I like the George Washington view to try to keep our noses out of everything as much as possible. That does not happen often enough. You did suggest this:

“it should be the US policy to encourage Central American countries to pass legislation to declare gangs terrorists. It would have had the same impact of the use of the word, “outlaw.” You kill them where you see them. A few years after I departed, a certain government considered it. Pity it didn’t have the full weight of the US government. It might have passed.”

How does the US help with that?

Anyway, thanks for some ideas about this vexing situation.

Please do not give up on FR.

I see you still have your head up your 4th point of contact.

Why would they wave American Flags? It’s the place they are trying to come to idiot.

Why would they wave the flag of their failed state if it was a failed state?

Are you aware that ad hominem attacks is against the policy of FR?

You are not contributing anything to the discussion. If you can't be civil, then remain silent.

I lived, worked in Honduras, and then married a Honduran. Don't attempt to lecture me about anything regarding Honduras.

Man, there is a lot there. No, you were not the one that couldn't embrace the reality about political parties are indistinguishable when it comes to our national foreign policy. The US government is the entity that shapes and executes policy. You can read the thread and figure out who it is if you chose.

There was a suggestion that "I" should embark upon the task of Making Honduras Great Again, a ridiculous proposition; again, not you.

FR is most definitely becoming an echo chamber. Ad hominem attacks immediately out of the gate. It is almost as if the readership engages this forum with a knife-wielding mentality to destroy, rather than to try to understand a position. The mods are ineffective and there isn't enough reinforcement/maintenance of what the proper conduct is.

Losing Americanism.....absolutely and I could not agree with you more. Me and another Freeper had a long discussion on this. I summarize: We either get to a full-court press on developing conservative thought in our youth by way of a classic American education, or we are done. Nothing we do or say will matter.

You can't call it an invasion if the door is wide open. Neither can you blame a Central American for giving up on the utter failure of their governments in order to secure a better life. I have some family members that are using chain migration (DJT talked about it today at the Houston rally). We are naive to think people will not sacrifice for a chance to taste Uncle Sugar, and all he has to offer.

Want to know the jobs in Honduras that have the highest fatalities per capita? Journalists, police and lawyers, and truck/bus drivers. Truth, law, and commerce. Hondurans are deprived of unvarnished truth, justice, and prosperity/freedom of movement. And we are bitching about them coming here? They are in hell. It isn't much of a choice. All middle class kids come home from school and stay inside. Doubly so for females. We would do the same thing if we were in their shoes. Full disclosure: My niece is an attorney for the Attorney General of Honduras.I lost two nephews, murdered by MS-13. My pastor's maid had two daughters. Had. Past tense. They found parts of the body of one, and never found the body of the other.

Our immigration dysfunction goes back decades. We built this by ignoring the absolute privilege it is to be an American citizen. When Clinton's INS Director resigned because he didn't want the job after Congress' refusal to stop using immigration as a political football, no American said a word. No protests. No letter writing. No action. No nothing. And now everyone is pissed because our country has been transformed. Invaded? Well.......as a representative republic...."Where was EVERYONE when.........?" Get the point? This has been engineered for decades, not something that happened in the last few years. Obama was the coup de grace towards our immigration and foreign policies in Central America. I cannot even do it justice.

This is directly related to our public schools and their lack of teaching American Exceptionalism. We (as a country) didn't react when we should have.

Like you, I am against feeling obligated to take on any more immigration. In fact, our system is broken and has been broken for some time, I would immediately freeze all immigration until Congress rebuilds it-- after the Mid-Terms. And if they lose the House and can't ......2020 is the last chance. After that, the destruction of the United States is all but assured. Once a nation loses the ability to produce a crop of youth to ensure its survival, the jig is up. It just becomes a matter of time.

As a starting point, the Big Red One is in Ft Riley, KS. DJT should move it south permanently. Being stationed in Kansas is outdated thinking. There is nothing in KS to warrant it. The advance party stops the caravan in its tracks. along with 4th ID and each state's National Guard. That signals to everyone that we are woke, and that Congress must act to build the wall (you can't keep two infantry divisions in the field indefinitely).

Let's take a commercial break. Conservatives have done little in outreach to systematically educate Latinos why they should embrace and vote for conservatism. Cubans get it because they know what they came from. But everyone else comes from a culture where socialism is the norm, but not violently so.....yet. Venezuelans are now being culturally enriched. This will be a disaster to the US.

Now back to my response.

All of Central America's woes are not the responsibility of the US, but yes...some are. A lot of Freepers want to leave it at that. Cut them off, and say "good luck." That is foolish. There are only two major problems: economy and criminal justice. Help them solve those, and we have long time peaceful allies and trade partners.

If we cut them off....they are coming anyway, and we open up the possibility for China to waltz in. And China will. Venezuela's Maduro just took a trip to China for money. China has one model: lend money and then take away your freedom by absorbing you.

How much effort has the US spent on encouraging Central American businesses to be prepared to take over Chinese production of exports to the US? Laughable. We could help them produce jobs and manufacturing, and screw China in one swift move. Say what you will about Central America....they are not growing a military to put us into submission. China is.

Can the US help with gangs? Absolutely. You can distill the gang problem in Central America down to one sentence: The inability of each country to execute justice. Once you understand that, then you can solve the problem. Hondurans have been wanting the Death Penalty to come back. State Department needs to assist them in thinking rightly about gangs: they are not just criminal syndicates-- they graduated. They are destabilization agents that threaten the security and prosperity of everyone. They must be eliminated. They can be assisted by our State Department to make constitutional amendments (in Honduras it takes two sessions of Congress to make a change). BTW, we helped them write their constitution in the 1982 when the first peaceful transfer of power to civilian rule occurred (Suazo Cordoba). I was there as a teenager and was physically present at his inauguration. I was a hell of a trumpet player.

Did you know it took one US diplomat to change the El Salvadorian economy to a dollar-based? He mentored the ES government and did it in about one year. He was the Economic Secretary, Mr. Rooney. Forget his first name. So yeah, to answer your question, we can mentor. But we have to be serious about it. DJT-level serious. Bring back the Directorate of Criminal Investigations. It was called the DIC (pronounced DICK-- because they were). A liberal Honduran president got rid of them. They were the most feared law enforcement institution in Honduran history, and they got the job done. Sure, they needed some ethics training, but don't we all?

Reform the tax code. The problem in CA is that no one but the rich pays taxes. No one. Sound familiar? No one has skin in the game.

Add a constitutional amendment that looks suspiciously like the US 2nd Amendment. If you shoot someone is Honduras, you are going to the can until a magistrate sorts it out. Also, you need a lawyer to get a permit, thereby making it unaffordable and an unreasonable burden for many to obtain-- unless you have money or are connected.

Corruption is....endemic in Central America. Again, a crime and punishment issue: but I have been in Central America since I was 9 years old. It is not the same now, and it has always been corrupt. Although it is pretty rich for us gringos calling CA governments corrupt. A major US political party used the reigns of government to try to bring down a duly elected US president. Corruption is not new....it's how you condition citizens and institutions to deal with it.

I do recall you threw the first stone - you called me a Democrat.

So you’re an anti American - so be it.

I didn’t call you a democrat. Go back to the thread. You were being/acting like a democrat by asserting something i never said or implied. Your emotions got the best of you.

You are not adding anything to the conversation.

Stop messaging me.

Toot Toot chuga chuga chuga chuga

Hey retard your post # 36 on this thread “Did I say that? Stop being a democrat.”

So that makes you a liar as well.

You owe me an apology.

And for the record - I am not messaging you. I don’t want you to give people the wrong idea about me.

I am responding to your posts to me in this thread.

All you have to do is stop posting to me.