Incorrect.
Read the Book of Job and learn.
God does not report to you.
FReegards!
Posted on 10/17/2018 10:39:44 PM PDT by Sontagged
Who incited David to take the census in 2 Samuel 24, God or Satan? Why was God so angry at David for taking the census? Why did God punish the Israelite people when it was David who ordered the census?"
Answer: Second Samuel 24:1 says, “Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, ‘Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.’”
The parallel account of the incident surrounding the census, however, reveals it was Satan who incited David to take the census: “Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel” (1 Chronicles 21:1).
This discrepancy is often explained by the understanding that, in order to achieve His purposes, sometimes God sovereignly permits Satan to act. God can use Satan in various ways, with the result being the refining, disciplining, and purification of disobedient believers (Luke 22:31–32; 1 Corinthians 5:1–5; 2 Corinthians 12:7–10).
Such might have been the case with David. God allowed Satan to tempt him, and David sinned, revealing his pride, and God then dealt with David accordingly.
There other considerations concerning the passages relating David’s sinful census. Here is 2 Samuel 24:1 in four translations:
“Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them . . .” (NIV).
“Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them . . .” (ESV).
“And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them . . .” (KJV).
“Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them . . .” (NASB).
Note that the New American Standard Bible says “it” (the anger of the Lord) is what caused David to take the census. The other translations say “he” (the Lord) did the inciting.
The reason for the differences in translation is that, in the original language, there is no subject for the verb incited. The fact is we aren’t told who exactly moved David to take the census.
To translate the verse literally, we would say, “There was who moved David against them” or “For one moved David against them.” The translations above have taken this to mean it was either God or His anger that caused David to take the census. But there are other options:
– The unstated thing that moved David to conduct the census could have been David’s own evil imagination.
– The “one” who moved David could be Satan, as 1 Chronicles 21:1 says.
– The “adversary” (the meaning of the word Satan) mentioned in 1 Chronicles could be someone other than the devil; it could have been an unnamed counsellor to David who prompted him into a foolish (or sinful) action.
As to why God was angry at David, in those times, a man only had the right to count or number what belonged to him. Israel did not belong to David; Israel belonged to God.
In Exodus 30:12 God told Moses, “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them.” It was up to God to command a census, and if David counted he should only do it at God’s command, receiving a ransom to “atone” for the counting.
This is why God was angry again with Israel and is also why David was “conscience-stricken” after he counted Israel. David knew it was wrong and begged God to take away the guilt of his sin (2 Samuel 24:10).
God gave David a choice of three punishments for his sin—three years of famine, three months of fleeing before his enemies, or three days of plague. David chose the third, and the Lord then punished Israel with a plague that killed 70,000 men from Dan in the north to Beersheba in the south.
As for why God punished the whole nation for the sin of the king, that is exactly the question David asks in 2 Samuel 24:17. Why, when he was the one who had sinned, did the people have to suffer? He even requested that God’s hand be against him and his family only, and that God would spare the people.
But, as with the account of Job, God chose not to give a reason for His actions. Perhaps it was because of Israel’s multiplied sins and rebellion against God throughout the centuries.
Perhaps it was a lesson to the people (and to us as well) that the people suffer when their leaders go astray. The reality is that God didn’t justify His actions with a reason, nor does He have to.
Of the three choices presented to David, the first two would have involved some level of dependency upon the mercy of man: the warfare, of course, would be as severe as the enemy wanted it to be; the famine would require Israel to seek food from other nations, relying on the pity of their neighbors. Instead of relying on the mercy of any human, David chose to rely on the mercy of God—the pestilence was, after all, the most direct form of punishment from God, and in the plague they could only look to God for relief.
The psalmist tells us, “As for God, His way is perfect” (Psalm 18:30). If God’s ways are “perfect,” then we can trust that whatever He does—and whatever He allows—is also perfect. Our responsibility to God is to obey Him, to trust Him, and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not.
As we see in 2 Samuel 24:16, God was grieved because of the things that were happening to His people, and He called off the punishment. Even in His rebuke God still shows His love and mercy.
To quote the article: "As to why God was angry at David, in those times, a man only had the right to count or number what belonged to him. Israel did not belong to David; Israel belonged to God...."
Somehow have been equating the problem of companies and the government data-mining us with the sin of King David in numbering his people and soldiers...
Would be interested in your thoughts.
This would have been a sin of pride on King David’s part, a statement before God that these people were David’s. The devil wanted David to do it so he would sin. God permitted the devil’s desire to tempt David to show him where he needed to repent.
Does it carry over to representative republics such as the USA. I would say no it does not carry over directly for it depends on motive.
When the time comes that all of the U S belongs again to God, then we’d all better mind our ps and qs.
Thanks that was an interesting and thoughtful response...
The only Christian analogy to the nation of Israel is the church, and that with some things transformed. Maybe churches that score how well they do by how many pew seats they fill, rather than how well the gospel is lived, might be an analogy here.
Was recently marveling with a friend about how God showed the entire history of the world and the New Earth/God's Kingdom come to earth to King Nebuchadnezzar...
I always forget that He showed it to the formerly crazy old Nebuchadnezzar instead of Daniel! https://lifehopeandtruth.com/prophecy/understanding-the-book-of-daniel/daniel-2/
Was never an “the end is near” type of guy until recently, and now the end seems to be very near.
God showed that old Babylonian King in Daniel 2 just how it will all come down... with rejoicing.
The good guys win in the end!
The USs NOT Israel...We are not led by David....
Jesus fulfilled the Law. Live by grace
The Census wasn’t the problem. It is what he was trying to do with it, shoring up his support through favouritism.
Bkmk
Yet did not one of the first five books of the Bible, Numbers,did it not start with a census?
In articles like that, I wish the author would not go into which translations are correct and which are not. Use the King James and the the manuscripts used to translate that version of the Bible. They are correct and inspired, not any of the others, and then there will be no doubt as to who, in this case, moved David to take the census.
I always read it to believe that David was shifting his trust away from God and to his own military might — which was quantified by the number of fighting age men in his nation. Almost every other occurrence of a census in the Old Testament was about figuring out how many men you had on hand to decide if you should go to battle.
Was it pride (vanity) or a demonstrated lack of faith on Davids part that angered God?
If “the reality is that God didn’t justify His actions with a reason, nor does He have to”, you’re talking about Allah of the Muslims, or you’ve fallen for the Muslim influenced error of Voluntarism. Truth is so close to God’s essence that in the psychological analogy of faith, Truth is the Eternal Logos, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. (The essential attributes of spiritual beings, whether men, Angels, or God, are to know and to will. The knowledge with which God knows Himself infinitely is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the Eternal logos, the Eternal Word, Jesus.) It’s in Islam that God arbitrarily refuses to give His reasons, and is not bound by rationality. When Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, He said it in the context of coming into this world to Enlighten all men.
Incorrect.
Read the Book of Job and learn.
God does not report to you.
FReegards!
I don't get it... which is why i posted. Someone pointed out to me that this website isn't the most reliable... but I just posted this because I wanted FReeper feedback...!
Yes, I agree with you... so somehow the number of people would give David a sense of self sufficiency or prideful importance, instead of a reliance upon God?
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