Free Republic

“Your insinuation that any of us here think differently is reprehensible ....especially those of us with families involved.”

This is the crux of the issue which irritates me to no end. I don’t have the time to go thru the posts of every article dealing with combat stress or PTS to pull out all of the asinine comments that call the condition a lie, the ones who claim it are p*ssies, soldiers in WWII didn’t get it, and my particular favorite, “they just need to suck it up.”

The condition is there, it’s real and I will continue to decry those who dispute otherwise and will continue to be a clarion to change the cultural stigma associated with seeking help.

If that categorizes or characterizes me as not patriotic, supposedly naive, not pro-whatever enough, that’s OK. Emerald Shellback can take it.

“I said I didn’t know anything about you other than what you wrote on this thread” No. You said, “Every post you’ve written indicates that you’re an anti-military leftist.” I was responding to that.

“I’d like to see proof that you’re not.” Prove that someone is not ______ (fill in the blank.) Can’t prove this negative as much as you can’t prove the negative that you’re a _____ (fill in the blank.) Using the argumentum ad ignorantiam is intellectually dishonest.

Now, to your specific questions:
Are you an American? My whole life (Or, because it’s funny, to quote Rick Baline: “I’m a drunkard.”)

Do you support Operation Iraqi Freedom? The dust on my boots from Iraq and Afghanistan should answer that.

Do you support our troops? In thought, word and deed.
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Are you a pacifist? As much as Ike was. “I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.”
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Are you a Democrat? “There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.” Alexis de Tocqueville
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“The fact that our military has endured what most of us could never deal with IN ORDER TO KEEP US SAFE and come back strong, and LESS suicidal or violent than their peers...” IMHO, “LESS” is immaterial. Through April, the Army reported 64 confirmed or potential active-duty suicides, compared with 39 confirmed suicides in the same period last year. The 129 confirmed suicides for all of 2008 marked a record high since the Army started tracking them in 1980. (20.2/100K Mil avg & 11/100K Nat’l avg.) They are stressed, they are suffering and putting one’s head in the sand or using “patriotic platitudes” won’t change the facts.

Query: What’s an acceptable number of military suicides?
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“...is an indication of their strength and stability.” It’s a sure indication that combat changes everyone — some more than others. It’s our responsibility to give the necessary and appropriate treatment to those who need it — both service members and thier families — and make sure they are neither punished nor ostracized for seeking help.
Query: Do you believe that?

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“it is fair to believe that you are anti-military, just like CNN and the NYTimes.” To quote Gates, “The press is not the enemy.” They aren’t our friends, but they aren’t the spawn of Satan, either.

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“What you think of our military and their mission.” A little broad, would you not say? Maybe at a later date or after a more refined question
Query: “What do you think of life, death and immortality?”

You’ve ever seen “Johnny Dangerously?”

Here are my posts on this thread.

Where arethe “anti-military and leftist” comments?

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Here are my posts on this thread.

Where is the anti-militarism and leftistism

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To: PISANO
“there are LESS (sic) incidents of this type in the US Military than ANY OTHER WALK OF LIFE.”
If you add all of the suicides, attempted suicides and, alcholol related incidents, I would enture to guess that the number is significantly higher.
Even if the incidents are comparable with civilan numbers, exactly how many of these incidents is acceptable to you?

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To: ohioWfan
Stars&Stripes:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=62572
Overall last year, there were 140 confirmed suicides and there are another seven probable suicides still under investigation, the Army said. That’s up from 115 in 2007, and 101 in 2006.
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CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/army.suicides/index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The U.S. Army will report Thursday the highest level of suicides among its soldiers since it began tracking the rate 28 years ago, CNN has learned.
Statistics obtained by CNN show that the Army will report 128 confirmed suicides last year and an additional 15 suspected suicides in cases under investigation among active-duty soldiers and activated National Guard and reserves.
The confirmed rate of suicides was 20.2 per 100,000. Army officials were reviewing the suspected suicides Wednesday. If any of them are confirmed, the rate will rise.
In 2007, the Army reported 115 confirmed suicides, the highest level since 1980, when it began tracking suicides.
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Military Times: http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/03/airforce_suicide_032309w/
Suicide rates remain high
Top officers urge ‘supportive climate’ for troubled troops
The suicide rates in all four services last year were higher than the national civilian average, and significantly higher in the Army and Marines, which saw overall increases.
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Journal of Amaerican Medicine: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/301/11/1111
Soldier Suicide Rates Continue to Rise:
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Hartford Courant: http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/hc-mentally-unfit-still-fightin.artmay12,0,2018202.story
Since the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, more than 210 service members have killed themselves while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the suicide rate has risen significantly since the beginning of those campaigns. Army-wide, there have been 64 confirmed or suspected suicides in the first four months of this year, with the suicide rate among soldiers now exceeding the demographically adjusted civilian rate.
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San Jose Mercury News: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12320617?nclick_check=1
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And yes......
NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/30suicide.html?pagewanted=print
Suicides of Soldiers Reach High of Nearly 3 Decades
Suicides among soldiers in 2008 rose for the fourth year in a row, reaching the highest level in nearly three decades, Army officials said Thursday.
At least 128 soldiers killed themselves last year, and the Army suicide rate surpassed that for civilians for the first time since the Vietnam War, according to Army statistics. The suicide count, which includes soldiers in the Army Reserve and the National Guard, is expected to grow; 15 deaths are still being investigated, and the vast majority of them are expected to be ruled suicides, Army officials said.
Including the deaths being investigated, roughly 20.2 of every 100,000 soldiers killed themselves. The civilian rate for 2006, the most recent figure available, was 19.2 when adjusted to match the demographics.
Suicides by active-duty soldiers continued an alarming rise during the first four months of the year, although they fell off in April after a service-wide push to identify soldiers on the brink, the Army reported Thursday.
Through April, the Army reported 64 confirmed or potential active-duty suicides, compared with 39 confirmed suicides in the same period last year. The 129 confirmed suicides for all of 2008 marked a record high since the Army started tracking them in 1980.

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To: ohioWfan
See 115
To: ohioWfan
Originally, I said the include the suicides, attempted suicides and, alcholol related incidents.
You conveniently omit the data on these additional incidents.
That’s the “suck it up and fight you wimps” hook “ohioWfan” - to provide most of the information, but not all of it.

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To: ohioWfan
“leftist sources”
If the sources were wrong then why didn’t the Army/military refute them? They didn’t refute them because the “leftist sources,” as you call them, got them from the Army.

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To: ohioWfan
“It is not the Army’s responsibility to refute partial reports..” Hell it isn’t. What do you think their people who work with the media do when there is wrong info? Sit there with their thumbs in their ears? No, they get the record corrected. Moreso, they talk with the reporters ahead of time to make sure they have their facts correct. DUH? What a novel idea! Your lack of understanding of how reporters and the military work wiith each other is mind-boggling.
“...by leftist anti-military sources.”
So CNN, NYT, Military Times, JAMA, San Jose Mercury and the Hartford Courant are leftist anti-military sources? Baised? Sure. Everyone is. “Leftist anti-military sources?” Wow. You’d better leave now. Joseph Farahis is calling you to write some articles.

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To: Allegra
Anti-military? Are you Nucking Futs?
My “suck it up and fight you wimps” response was an imitation of his/her post.
The tragic issue here is that there are so many who are willing to say that combat stress does not exist -— at all and that anyone who suffers from it is really just a wimp who needs to “suck it up and fight.”

How many of the former “Maryland Millionairs” are the 200+ professional athletes who avoid O’Mallard’s repressive tax policy by living in VA, or PA?

Stand by for heavy seas.

Every post you’ve written indicates that you’re an anti-military leftist

Since you have not read the 599 threads and 4,899 replies your statement is obviously a lie.

Anti-military? Are you Nucking Futs?

My “suck it up and fight you wimps” response was an imitation of his/her post.

The tragic issue here is that there are so many who are willing to say that combat stress does not exist -— at all and that anyone who suffers from it is really just a wimp who needs to “suck it up and fight.”

“...discovered by a fellow student and school administrators...”

“Lucy! Someone’s got some ‘splainin’ to do!”

If you’re out to out them, it’s OK. //S//

Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael J. Dugan in 1991

Also Adm. Richard C. Macke — head of the U.S. Pacific Command

Gates just testified that McKiernan and Odierno both said that releasing the photos would not be a good thing.

Sounds like the on-scene commanders also pushed back - hard.

A teaching moment

Right. Not thinking. (and he was a ways from 4-stars.)

People are saying that MacArthur was the last 4-star to be fired>

GEN Kevin P. Byrnes - TRADOC
GEN Wesley Clark - NATO
Gen Joseph Ralston - VCJCS

Sweep it under the rug? Nope. CO’s are relieved because of loss of confidence all the time.

Singlaub was a three star.

I guess after the NYC fiasco - including Gibbs' "remarks" and BHO's lack of apology - they're going to announce THIS one.

“It is not the Army’s responsibility to refute partial reports..” Hell it isn’t. What do you think their people who work with the media do when there is wrong info? Sit there with their thumbs in their ears? No, they get the record corrected. Moreso, they talk with the reporters ahead of time to make sure they have their facts correct. DUH? What a novel idea! Your lack of understanding of how reporters and the military work wiith each other is mind-boggling.

“...by leftist anti-military sources.”

So CNN, NYT, Military Times, JAMA, San Jose Mercury and the Hartford Courant are leftist anti-military sources? Baised? Sure. Everyone is. “Leftist anti-military sources?” Wow. You’d better leave now. Joseph Farahis is calling you to write some articles.

“leftist sources”

If the sources were wrong then why didn’t the Army/military refute them? They didn’t refute them because the “leftist sources,” as you call them, got them from the Army.