Posted on 03/15/2002 6:54:33 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.
Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.
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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
Is Boromir's motivation to bring honor and glory to himself (and maybe be proclaimed King?) or was it to save Minas Tirith with the honor and glory accompanying the completion of such a task being nice, but secondary to the saving of Gondor?
-Kevin
First off, in the book, the Council was a much more spontaneous event. All the particapants just showed up, for various reasons (some of them supernaturally summonsed, others wanting advice) - and they've got problems that don't seem, at first, to relate to the Ring.
Of course, the book council was longer - all those stories! I'd been hoping they'd leave in at least the Dwarves' story, about the messenger coming to Dain - anything for a glimpse of the Lonely Mountain! But no... oh well, I'm sure it would just have bored the non-fans to sit through.
Boromir dominates the Council a lot more in the movie. He's like that annoying guy in the room who doesn't understand that everyone's giving him the Glare of Death and hoping he'll shut up. Even Elrond doesn't want to put up with him.
And of course in the book, the Fellowship gets mostly put together after the council. Those are the biggest details - the movie differs mostly in leaving things out rather than changing them. Not bad at all. Not at all like the Council scene in Bakshi... *shudder*
But interestingly enough, I think this was an adept translation by Jackson of Tolkien's vision. Boromir does speak up too soon, too often, and with too much self-importance. Are you still without your books? - tell me if you want quotes, but I think Tolkien was definately telling us not to like Boromir very much from the start.
Seek for the Sword that was broken:
In Imladris it dwells;
There shall be counsels taken
Stronger than Morgul-spells.
There shall be shown a token
That Doom is near at hand,
For Isildur's Bane shall waken,
And the Halfling forth shall stand.
Wouldn't it have been neat to be in the room when they were writing the script, and debating what to put it, and what to leave out. What to move to a different place, and what to make up from scratch. There have to be reasons they felt the existing writing wouldn't work the way it was, or why would they go to the trouble of rewriting? I would never have made a good fly on the wall though... I would have had to speak up.
You dare post THAT name!?!?!?
LOL! I actually wasted money on it about two weeks ago so that I could let my daughter see experience it for herself. After we both recovered (she made me watch it with her) we had an even greater appreciation for Jackson's visionary achievement.
-Kevin
Back to the movie vs. film, I am not sure I would have turned poor Radagast into a moth.
And the Saruman in the books is much more unlikable from the start: From Gandalf's retelling at the council:
` "So you have come, Gandalf," he said to me gravely; but in his eyes there seemed to be a white light, as if a cold laughter was in his heart."Yes, I have come," I said. "I have come for your aid, Saruman the White." And that title seemed to anger him.
' "Have you indeed, Gandalf the Grey! " he scoffed. "For aid? It has seldom been heard of that Gandalf the Grey sought for aid, one so cunning and so wise, wandering about the lands, and concerning himself in every business, whether it belongs to him or not."
A pretty cold welcome, and although Gandalf seems to still trust him at first (perhaps Saruman was always a cranky sort) Tolkien told us not to like him much from the start.
In this, I admire the way Jackson warmed him up at first and inched us into trusting him so that we all could see the betrayal as it played out. Nicely done.
...`Did you not hear me, Glóin?' said Elrond. `The Three were not made by Sauron, nor did he ever touch them. But of them it is not permitted to speak. So much only in this hour of doubt I may now say. They are not idle. But they were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained. These things the Elves of Middle-earth have in some measure gained, though with sorrow. But all that has been wrought by those who wield the Three will turn to their undoing, and their minds and hearts will become revealed to Sauron, if he regains the One. It would be better if the Three had never been. That is his purpose.'`But what then would happen, if the Ruling Ring were destroyed as you counsel?' asked Glóin.
'We know not for certain,' answered Elrond sadly. `Some hope that the Three Rings, which Sauron has never touched, would then become free, and their rulers might heal the hurts of the world that he has wrought. But maybe when the One has gone, the Three will fail, and many fair things will fade and be forgotten. That is my belief.'
`Yet all the Elves are willing to endure this chance,' said Glorfindel 'if by it the power of Sauron may be broken, and the fear of his dominion be taken away for ever.'
Galadriel's ring, of course, he tells us about in the course of the story. But why do you suppose he hid Elrond's and Gandalf's rings until the end of the story? I guess when I learned about Galadriel's, I assumed that Elrond had one, mostly because he and Galadriel both seem to have the same powers to protect their enchanted little Oases, and Rivendell was obviously such a powerfully enchanted place.
How did Gandalf get his ring? - Why does a Wizard have an elf-ring? - who was intended the bearer of it, and how did that happen? - Have you told us before?
Probably because Bilbo's only purpose at the Council was to tell his part of the "Ring" story and in the movie, that was told in the prologue.
Gandalf could have been influenced by Saruman's voice at this point whereas in The Two Towers he will not be. (highlight to read)
I didn't like the movie Saruman from the start. I guess it could have been the combination of knowing what was going to happen and not being able to believe Christopher Lee could be playing a good guy.
-Kevin
But his outward greeting was warm, like the meeting of old friends, and less outwardly snippy... till the "your love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed your mind" comment when they are walking in the garden. Orthanc is such a noticably pretty place. A bad guy wouldn't plant flowering trees and lush gardens would he? - I thought nicely tended garden, and the white robes looking soiled where a nice way for Jackson to show that he has not been a bad guy for very long.
"Boromir's stuff" is important to those movie goers who haven't read the book - to emphazize why Gandalf fears the Ring (and just in case they thought G was a wimp!) People new to the story are asking the same question...why can't the good guys use the ring.
True, at least he was trying to smile warmly as he came down the stairs.
About that "leaf" comment, as far as I know (which probably isn't very far) Tolkien never intended for the "halflin's leaf" to be construed as some sort of marijuana.
Am I wrong on this? If not, then I wonder why Jackson would try to make it seem like everyone was running around having a good toke every now and then.
I don't think the fellowship would have gotten very far if they spent most of their time high as kites.
-Kevin
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