Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn) II

[Penny1]

Yes, I love the look on Gandalf's face when Boromir speaks up. "[sigh] He is talking again!" hehehe

You mean this look?

Hehehe...

I love all of that non-verbal stuff in the council in the movie too--everyone did a fabulous job of carrying on an unspoken conversation throughout the scene....

[Overtaxed]

Good Afternoon, Penny, or is it still morning over there? It's rainy and gloomy over here like (dare I say it?) the day the hobbits spent at Tom Bombadil's.

I think Tolkien mentions in his letters or somewhere that LOTR was at its heart a "catholic" work, at first unconsciously and later on consciously (I have mangled that terribly, my memory just isn't what it used to be). So I think it's fair to see some of these parallels. They are wonderfully subtle, which I think was important to Tolkien--he didn't want anyone to have the parallels forced on them as allegory does.

I found the quote in Letters, #142

The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. Fro the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism.

[Overtaxed]

Don't mind me, I'll just go pout in Took's Corner, which is suddenly terribly lonely....

Well order another bucket of wings and I'll get the pints!

Party in Took's Corner!

I've been doing some pottering around the house waiting for sleepy head hobbits to show up

[Overtaxed]

I was thinking about the setting for the Council of Elrond in the movie and the way Elrond (at least) seemed a bit put out when extra hobbits started "coming out of the woodwork" so to speak. Well they had that council on the porch where any Tourist Guy could just wander by:

But when I went back to the book I saw that indeed it did take place on the porch. I guess they don't need no stinking security in Rivendell!

[JenB]

You know, there's something wrong with that picture...wasn't Frodo sitting next to Gandalf? Where's his chair?

[Overtaxed]

Tourist Guy must have taken it. :)

[JenB]

You know... that backpack that TG carries... what do you think is in it? I'm pretty sure I've figured out where a great many famous 'lost' items ended up. After all, everyone knows how tourists like their souvenirs.

[Overtaxed]

Hmmm....maybe everyone should check their valuables....and I don't like the way TG is looking at the Ring.

[JenB]

I think he's looking at Figwit, actually. The two could team up, a fantastic duo of mute adventurers wandering from one odd situation to another...
Figgy and T-Guy's Excellent Adventure, anyone?

Hair is going to put us in the corner for a week, I just know it, posting all these pics and weird comments in the Dragon....

[Overtaxed]

Well...we warned her about starting something with Figwit. BTW who are all those guys at the Council in the movie? Aren't there only about 10 or so in the book?

[JenB]

Yeah, there do seem to be more people at the Council in the movie.... pretty Elf faces, I suppose.

[Overtaxed]

It seems to me they had too many of those blonde Elves...Wood Elves? I thought Legolas was the only Wood Elf there. And there are some extra Men too. I'll have to look at movie pictures but I think they had a few extra Dwarves on hand too. No wonder someone took Frodo's chair and no one invited Bilbo!

[Penny1]

THAT is a great quote!!! Thank you!

Nothing like having something to throw in the faces of those who endlessly protest the religious symbolism and themes of the book. :) I was reading just the other day some diatribe about those annoying Christians who keep claiming LOTR as "theirs." Hehehe, sorry, folks, the author did that, not us. ;)

Thanks for joining me, everyone, I was off reading my chapters and I come back and here you'all are! :)

[Penny1]

Maybe they figured a bunch of nameless blond elves would make up for Glorfindel not being there.... ;)

[Penny1]

In reading the chapter on the Council, I found myself feeling very sorry for the Mirkwood elves. Can you imagine the lead-in they got about Gollum? There Aragorn is talking about how he's just SO GLAD that Gollum is safely tucked away in Mirkwood, and they have to say, "well, ummm, sorry to have to tell you this, but...."

Aragorn: Still I for one am glad that he is safely kept by the watchful Elves of Mirkwood....

Poor Legolas! LOL....

[Penny1]

Did Legolas come alone? I guess I wasn't paying attention to that....

I can just imagine him getting selected to be the lucky elf that gets to deliver their news.

[Overtaxed]

I was reading just the other day some diatribe about those annoying Christians who keep claiming LOTR as "theirs."

Mine!

Mine!

Mine!!

[Overtaxed]

Did Legolas come alone?

He's the only "strange Elf clad in green and brown" from Mirkwood mentioned.

[Overtaxed]

Aragorn: Still I for one am glad that he is safely kept by the watchful Elves of Mirkwood....

Yeah...they watched him escape!

[Sam Cree]

"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work"

I would say, in reference to other letters which state that LOTR is not any sort of retelling of the Christian story, that LOTR is a Catholic work in the same sense that Tolkien was a Catholic man. That is, as a Catholic, his life and his work were inevitably framed by his religion. Therefore, while I see LOTR as a Catholic work since it was written within the framework and morality of Catholicism (as the man led his life), I do not see it as specifically "pushing" Christianity.

I also suspect (without any real knowledge) that Tolkien's Catholicism may have been quite different from the more modern "reborn" and evangelical variety of Christianity.

In spite of these thoughts, I found Jackson's interpretation to be, at times, religious in feeling, particularly with usage of a boys' choir, etc. Frodo's first sight of Arwen, for instance, might have well been a vision of the Virgin Mary.

I'm not particularly religious, though I do find inspiration on the ocean and in the woods. I did, however, enjoy what I considered to be the almost overt religious overtones in the movie (which I had not noticed in the book).