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Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn) II

Posted on 03/15/2002 6:54:33 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.

Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn


Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: lordoftherings; tolkien
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To: Overtaxed
...just got back from the grocery store....I saw the label on the "Precious" brand of ricotta cheese and immediately thought of Gollum...

Time for those nice folks in the white coats, I think, lol.

501 posted on 05/05/2002 10:19:30 PM PDT by Penny1
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To: Penny1
"Cottage cheese, my precious"...at least Smeagol is getting his calcium!
502 posted on 05/06/2002 4:50:05 AM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Penny1
I bought the "letters" to read on the train on the way home from visiting my daughter in Syracuse.

I really enjoyed them, I found out alot about LOTR that I had never even suspected.

503 posted on 05/06/2002 12:55:46 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: Sam Cree
I just ordered my copy of the letters from Amazon yesterday. I can't wait to read it, nothing like getting the author's take on his own work. :)
504 posted on 05/06/2002 1:16:53 PM PDT by Penny1
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To: 2JedisMom; aBootes; allthatisgolddoesnotglitter; Anitius Severinus Boethius; BibChr; Blue Eyes...
Green Dragon PING

Hullo Friends – Hope you got your rest in Rivendell, much as I would love to stay in this wonderful place, we really must be heading on our way…

Fellowship of the Ring

Topic: The Ring Goes South

Pertinent Chapters - Book II
Chapter III – The Ring Goes South
Chapter IV – A Journey in the Dark
(first part, Caradhras until reaching Moria gate)

In this section…

The Ring Goes South

… At that moment Elrond came out with Gandalf, and he called the Company to him. 'This is my last word,' he said in a low voice. 'The Ring-bearer is setting out on the Quest of Mount Doom. On him alone is any charge laid: neither to cast away the Ring, nor to deliver it to any servant of the Enemy nor indeed to let any handle it, save members of the Company and the Council, and only then in gravest need. The others go with him as free companions, to help him on his way. You may tarry, or come back, or turn aside into other paths, as chance allows. The further you go, the less easy will it be to withdraw; yet no oath or bond is laid on you to go further than you will. For you do not yet know the strength of your hearts, and you cannot foresee what each may meet upon the road.'

`Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens,' said Gimli.

'Maybe,' said Elrond, `but let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.'

'Yet sworn word may strengthen quaking heart,' said Gimli.

`Or break it,' said Elrond. `Look not too far ahead! But go now with good hearts! Farewell, and may the blessing of Elves and Men and all Free Folk go with you. May the stars shine upon your faces!'

'Good . . . good luck!' cried Bilbo, stuttering with the cold. 'I don't suppose you will be able to keep a diary, Frodo my lad, but I shall expect a full account when you get back. And don't be too long! Farewell!'…

Penny's Movie Pictures

Here is a small map that shows where we are:

And here is a The whole map of Middle-Earth So we don't get lost!

Index to thread… click link to find the start of each prior chapter discussion:
(First Five chapters are re-posts of highlights from the old forum)

Prologue and Chapter One – A Long-Expected Party
Chapter Two - The Shadow of the Past
Chapter Three – Three is Company … And also here – double post! ugh!
Chapter Four – A Shortcut to Mushrooms
Chapter Five – A Conspiracy Unmasked
End of re-posts

Chapter Six – The Old Forest
Chapter Seven – In The House of Tom Bombadil
Chapter Eight – Fog on the Barrow-Downs
Chapter Nine – At the Sign of the Prancing Pony

New "section" format:

Bree (chapters 9-11)
Journey from Bree to the Ford (chapters 11-12)
Rivendell (Book 2 - chapters 1-3)
The Ring goes South– Current Section (chapters 3-4)

Sections still to come:
Moria (chapters 4-5)
Lothlorien (chapters 6-8)
The Breaking of the Fellowship (chapters 9-10)

So Hullo! – Good Morning! – talk amongst yourselves!

505 posted on 05/08/2002 7:42:42 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
And so we are off. Bill is looking fitter. The troop has hopes for good fortune. In a few days there will be the fight with the wolves. The attempt over Caradhras. The first of the threats to the whole company. It would seem the forces of evil have some idea that something is happening, but not sure what. The communication links seem a little slow though. Between the birds and the wolves and Gandalf announcing himself on the pass when he lights the fire (although if there were any to see they were pretty tough.) Was Caradhras controlled by someone or was there a malevolent spirit in the mountain itself that turned them back? I have always read it as just the mountain didn't want the group on it, but I have seen elsewhere that there is some thought that Sauron or Sauruman might have been in control. If so why wasn't there a party waiting for the fellowship when they came off he mountain? It would have been the perfect spot and time for an ambush.

Just a few things to get the discusssion going.

506 posted on 05/08/2002 7:58:16 AM PDT by doubled
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To: doubled
Hmmm, well, Tolkien hints that it was "the enemy" here:

Gandalf halted. Snow was thick on his hood and shoulders; it was already ankle-deep about his boots.

"This is what I feared,' he said. `What do you say now, Aragorn?'

'That I feared it too,' Aragorn answered, `but less than other things. I knew the risk of snow, though it seldom falls heavily so far south, save high up in the mountains. But we are not high yet; we are still far down, where the paths are usually open all the winter.'

'I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy,' said Boromir. "They say in my land that he can govern the storms in the Mountains of Shadow that stand upon the borders of Mordor. He has strange powers and many allies.'

'His arm has grown long indeed,' said Gimli, `if he can draw snow down from the North to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.'

'His arm has grown long,' said Gandalf.


507 posted on 05/08/2002 8:24:49 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
But as they come down doesn't someone say something along the lines of, "Caradhras has defeated us."

I don't have my books so I can't reference it for sure.

I guess it could be like a standing order not to let anyone across or it could be directed at this group, but do either of the evil minds know for sure what is up with the fellowship at this time?

508 posted on 05/08/2002 8:58:09 AM PDT by doubled
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To: HairOfTheDog; Overtaxed
Did you guys get pints in Rivendell?
509 posted on 05/08/2002 12:35:00 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: doubled
I vote for Caradhras acting out of its own malevolence, but with encouragement (of which it may or may not have been aware) by Sauron.
510 posted on 05/08/2002 12:40:06 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: doubled
Yep... Couple more quotes:
...`We cannot go further tonight,' said Boromir. `Let those call it the wind who will; there are fell voices on the air; and these stones are aimed at us.'

`I do call it the wind,' said Aragorn. `But that does not make what you say untrue. There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own. Some have been in this world longer than he.'

'Caradhras was called the Cruel, and had an ill name, said Gimli, `long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands.'

`It matters little who is the enemy, if we cannot beat off his attack; said Gandalf...

______________________

`Ah, it is as I said,' growled Gimli. 'It was no ordinary storm. It is the ill will of Caradhras. He does not love Elves and Dwarves, and that drift was laid to cut off our escape.'

______________________

`Enough, enough!' cried Gimli. 'We are departing as quickly as we may!' And indeed with that last stroke the malice of the mountain seemed to be expended, as if Caradhras was satisfied that the invaders had been beaten off and would not dare to return. The threat of snow lifted; the clouds began to break and the light grew broader.

As Legolas had reported, they found that the snow became steadily more shallow as they went down, so that even the hobbits could trudge along. Soon they all stood once more on the flat shelf at the head of the steep slope where they had felt the first flakes of snow the night before.

The morning was now far advanced. From the high place they looked back westwards over the lower lands. Far away in the tumble of country that lay at the foot of the mountain was the dell from which they had started to climb the pass.

Frodo's legs ached. He was chilled to the bone and hungry; and his head was dizzy as he thought of the long and painful march downhill. Black specks swam before his eyes. He rubbed them, but the black specks remained. In the distance below him, but still high above the lower foothills, dark dots were circling in the air.

`The birds again!' said Aragorn, pointing down.

'That cannot be helped now,' said Gandalf. `Whether they are good or evil, or have nothing to do with us at all, we must go down at once. Not even on the knees of Caradhras will we wait for another night-fall!'

A cold wind flowed down behind them, as they turned their backs on the Redhorn Gate, and stumbled wearily down the slope. Caradhras had defeated them.


511 posted on 05/08/2002 12:46:32 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Sam Cree
Agreed... It may not have been any kind of plan, per se... I don't think anyone (to quibble with our movie Saruman) would have intentionally guided the party to the path through Moria, and risk losing the Ring there. So I don't think Tolkien was telling us that...

This is possibly just general interference by bad things... like the Watcher in the Water and the Balrog. "There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world".

512 posted on 05/08/2002 12:51:04 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Penny1
My copy of the letters just arrived at the library... so I will need to stop and pick it up.
513 posted on 05/08/2002 12:54:11 PM PDT by carton253
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To: Sam Cree
Did you guys get pints in Rivendell?

Yes. Elrond does keep a keg or two in case visitors should come by but the Elves seem to prefer Winyards.

514 posted on 05/08/2002 12:56:28 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Sam Cree
The elves don't make real good pints... but they do make a wicked liquor:
`Give them this,' said Gandalf, searching in his pack and drawing out a leathern flask. `Just a mouthful each – for all of us. It is very precious. It is miruvor, the cordial of Imladris. Elrond gave it to me at our parting. Pass it round!'

As soon as Frodo had swallowed a little of the warm and fragrant liquor he felt a new strength of heart, and the heavy drowsiness left his limbs. The others also revived and found fresh hope and vigour. But the snow did not relent. It whirled about them thicker than ever, and the wind blew louder.


515 posted on 05/08/2002 12:58:28 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed
hehehe - you forgot the miruvor... my head still hurts....
516 posted on 05/08/2002 12:59:18 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
It doesn't sound like you could get drunk on miruvor! :D
517 posted on 05/08/2002 1:00:47 PM PDT by Overtaxed
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To: Overtaxed
Why do you think Gandalf only let us sip it?
518 posted on 05/08/2002 1:03:45 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
"The elves don't make real good pints"

Pints is probably more of a hobbit habit...

519 posted on 05/08/2002 1:15:22 PM PDT by Sam Cree
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To: HairOfTheDog
Dump Question - - Your Post #505 of the picture of the fellowship traveling single file across country reminded me of one of the visual effects that really WOWed me, the filming of the Hobbits/Gimli smaller than the rest of the fellowship in the same frame. I know that sometimes the special effects have to film a scene twice if an actor is playing a double role, but did PJ have to film everything with hobbits and dwarves twice to get that effect.

BTW, thanks for pinging me, I have had some trouble keeping up with where you are posting. I got a ping from the New Hobbit Hole today too, so thought maybe the thread had changed again.

Many thanks to all of your "Posters", I love readying you insightful comments--just great for those of us that have only read it recently. I love lurking here! Thanks ALL

520 posted on 05/08/2002 1:20:17 PM PDT by LinnieBeth
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