Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn) II

[HairOfTheDog]

Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.

Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.

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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.

[HairOfTheDog]

Nice meeting you this morning, stubborn one ;~D

Just on the off-chance you are interested, this is an ongoing book discussion thread... The movie comes up, but the book has the final word...

[HairOfTheDog]

Some of the shots like the one above (which is actually a cut scene... not in the film) used children as doubles... others had the hobbits on their knees or had the tall actors raised up on platforms (for shots that didn't show feet). Some, of course, were pure magic!

[Tuor]

Why thank you. Nice meeting you, as well.

I may give some insights later, after I've gotten some sleep and look over what you guys are talking about. If you have any really thorny questions, I may be able to help -- if not, I can make stuff up. :)

Tuor

[HairOfTheDog]

As for shooting everything twice... some of it, yes. They built two complete replicas of Bag End. One "actual size" where Gandalf appears to be very tall in a house built for hobbits. The other Bag End was built over scale... so that Bilbo and Frodo would seem at home in the hobbit sized environment. The two were blended so seamlessly that no one would ever dream of how difficult it really was.

McKellan said in an interview... [paraphrasing] "there is a scene where I appear to be standing in the doorway at Bag End and Bilbo walks up and takes my hat. He is only 3 feet tall. I don't know how they did that!"

[HairOfTheDog]

I can make stuff up. :)

Well, if you make stuff up, it better be good... :~D

[Overtaxed]

Why do you think Gandalf only let us sip it?

Either because he didn't have a lot of it or he didn't want to deal with a bunch of hopped-up hobbits!

As soon as Frodo had swallowed a little of the warm and fragrant liquor he felt a new strength of heart, and the heavy drowsiness left his limbs. The others also revived and found fresh hope and vigour.

[doubled]

Think of what a meal of miruvor and lembas would do for you.

[Overtaxed]

Energizer Bunny!

[Tuor]

I once had a nifty story that I wrote -- fan-fic. I just went looking for it and...it's gone. I had saved it on geocities, and my entire web page is gone. :(

I guess that I wont be making up stuff afterall.

Tuor

[ksen]

Here is my question/observation that I made over at the HH:

I was thinking about that[Boromir with the Ring on Caradhras] the other day, believe it or not. In the movie, Boromir never touches the Ring. Even when he has it by the chain, he never actually touches it. He come REAL close to touching it when Aragorn tells him to give the Ring back to Frodo. Does that show a bit of Boromir's attempts to resist the temptation of the Ring, or does it show more of Aragorn's growing aura of authority?

-Kevin

[HairOfTheDog]

Hello all...

A Book/vs/movie comparison for possible discussion...

This point in the story is where Jackson gave us more development of Boromir. First, he showed us a good side... a little warrior practice with Merry and Pippin...

And then Jackson gave us a most interesting addition to the story by dropping the ring in front of Boromir to see what he would do.

We also got to see where Aragorn's loyalty was... I have no doubt that had Boromir misbehaved he would have been relieved of his head.

I think this scene was really good... and it was an invention of Jackson's that I have not heard controversy over like we have seen with Jackson's other changes. Does everyone else like this? How does it compare with what Tolkien had shown us about Boromir at this point in the story?

My own pre-movie impression of Boromir at this point (I think... hard to remember) was of a not-too-bright guy (from his behavior at the council) who was nevertheless a great strong bear of a man who was handy to have with the Fellowship because he could plow through the snow and help get the "little ones" back out of there when they were turned back... what do you guys think?

[HairOfTheDog]

hehehe - I was preparing the post on the issue while you were... He doesn't really touch it... but would he be affected by the contact he did have? - as we know (or don't know yet, but will know), Sam was changed by his contact with it, though he bore it and wore it...

Is Boromir truly a hapless victim of irresistable temptation? The first to fall, but not the only one that would have fallen had the Fellowship all been pushed to the limit? Perhaps I ask these questions too early, but there they are for your consideration as we travel through it.

[ksen]

If Boromir had misbehaved and taken the Ring for himself, would Aragorn have been ABLE to relieve him of his head?

PS: I really liked that scene from the movie as well.

-Kevin

[HairOfTheDog]

Oh I think Aragorn was ready to act before Boromir would have been able to do anything. It takes time to master the power of the Ring, once claimed, and our Boromir was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[ksen]

Is Boromir truly a hapless victim of irresistable temptation? The first to fall, but not the only one that would have fallen had the Fellowship all been pushed to the limit? Perhaps I ask these questions too early, but there they are for your consideration as we travel through it.

I think if Boromir was as bad as SOME people(nudge) make him out to be, he would have never even tried to resist the call of the Ring. The very fact that he is trying to resist tells me that he was a good man tempted beyond his ability refuse.

I think that if everyone else had continued with Frodo, that they would have fallen, one by one, to the will of the Ring. (Highlight to read)

-Kevin

[ksen]

Oh I think Aragorn was ready to act before Boromir would have been able to do anything. It takes time to master the power of the Ring, once claimed, and our Boromir was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Heck of a warrior though.

-Kevin

[HairOfTheDog]

You are better about spoilers than I am ;~D especially for FoTR spoilers, since FoTR is a cat already out of the bag... but I will play nice too....

I think I have a very fair view of our Boromir... he is bashed because he did fall. He was the weakest link, though we are told that all would have fallen eventually, they were spared from having to confront it (all except Frodo and Sam) because their strength of will was stronger, or possibly more important, their ambition for personal power was less than Boromir's. Boromir's limits on both of those were reached... (highlight to read)

[Overtaxed]

He come REAL close to touching it when Aragorn tells him to give the Ring back to Frodo. Does that show a bit of Boromir's attempts to resist the temptation of the Ring, or does it show more of Aragorn's growing aura of authority?

I think it's Boromir fighting the Ring. Maybe Aragorn's getting more into the authority thing, but Boromir "snaps out of it" the same way you would if someone shouted to get your attention.

For what it's worth, I like the way PJ did Boromir's character at this part of the story. Showing his struggle of course makes Boromir a more sympathetic character but also foreshadows what could happen to the rest of the company.

[Overtaxed]

See...Boromir saved them all!

[Penny1]

ksen: He come REAL close to touching it when Aragorn tells him to give the Ring back to Frodo. Does that show a bit of Boromir's attempts to resist the temptation of the Ring, or does it show more of Aragorn's growing aura of authority?

OT: I think it's Boromir fighting the Ring. Maybe Aragorn's getting more into the authority thing, but Boromir "snaps out of it" the same way you would if someone shouted to get your attention.

I think it's both--Aragorn essentially snaps him out of it by speaking sharply to him, but Boromir himself is resisting it long enough for Aragorn to verbally shake him out of his temptation. I think PJ did an excellent job of showing the conflict between the lust for the ring itself and the relationships among the characters. This happens early on, when Gandalf himself is tempted by the ring at Bag End. As he is tempted by what he could do with it, the camera narrows its focus to the ring, with Frodo becoming fuzzy and indistinct behind it. It is only when Gandalf focuses back on Frodo that he fully rejects that temptation. The same thing happens at the end of the movie with Aragorn--when the temptation of the ring is fully rejected, his focus is on his friend, rather than the ring.

It is the same for Boromir here, IMO. He almost touches it, his gaze is completely narrowed to it, to the point that he is oblivious to anyone else even being present. The first time Aragorn speaks to him, it does not register at all. But when he speaks sharply, Boromir's focus on the ring is broken and he sees his companions again, rather than the ring. Its hold on him is broken, at least for the moment.

I think the point PJ might be trying to get across is that it is the relationships the characters have with one another that is the only thing that can keep any of them from falling to the temptation of the ring. I liked how he brought that idea out in the story, and I particularly liked that scene with Boromir on the mountain. It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie.

The importance of relationships may be why Boromir fell later on--he didn't really form any close relationships with any of the Fellowship in the book, and his attachments in the movie specifically excluded Frodo.