Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn) II

[HairOfTheDog]

Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.

Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.

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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.

[doubled]

Thinking about it, maybe PJ did a better job of character development than Tolkien did. In the book the whole work with Boromir is to show his allegiance to Gondor and his warrior status in Rivendell, then he is a strong brave man on the trek, and finally when they (spoiler alert) start down the Anduin from Lorien he starts obsessing about the ring, paddling up close to Frodo's boat, mumbling.

PJ uses the scene with the hobbits to wrap everything up and show that the ring is going to succumb. I would have liked to see it take a little longer, but then we get back to the seven hour movie that makes a dollar forty-seven cents.

[doubled]

PJ uses the scene with the hobbits to wrap everything up and show that the ring is going to succumb

Should be

...that he is going to succumb to the ring.

[Overtaxed]

:) I knew what you meant.

[doubled]

I know most people on this thread would be forgiving, but if some grammar policeman came through I wanted to be ready.

[Overtaxed]

Yeah...Admin Moderator can really be tough sometimes!

[HairOfTheDog]

I think the point PJ might be trying to get across is that it is the relationships the characters have with one another that is the only thing that can keep any of them from falling to the temptation of the ring. I liked how he brought that idea out in the story, and I particularly liked that scene with Boromir on the mountain. It's one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie.

The importance of relationships may be why Boromir fell later on--he didn't really form any close relationships with any of the Fellowship in the book, and his attachments in the movie specifically excluded Frodo.

That is really well put. The loyalty to each other has to be stronger than the pull of the ring, or evil wins... Boromir never particularly bonded with Frodo, or the cause. His motives never ceased being his own agenda, and followed the fellowship only so far as the mission followed his own.

I have a feeling Sam, Merry and Pippin have no particular commitment to the mission, but a deep commitment only to their friend. Frodo is safest with them. They have no personal ambition for evil to get a foothold in.

Aragorn, on the other hand, felt duty to the mission, and perhaps a personal bond with Frodo. His will is strong, but his mettle could perhaps be more tested than the others because of his ambition.

The weaknesses that could have been exploited in Legolas and Gimli are unknown.

[HairOfTheDog]

You guys still around?... I meant the above to be a reply to all... for your consideration...

[Overtaxed]

I'm home now!

The Ring could have tempted Gimli with the prospect of regaining Khazad-Dum. Legolas...could have been tempted to set up a cookie factory in some hollow tree in Mirkwood!

[HairOfTheDog]

One word:

Corner

[ksen]

The Ring could have tempted Gimli with the prospect of regaining Khazad-Dum. Legolas...could have been tempted to set up a cookie factory in some hollow tree in Mirkwood!

nyuk! nyuk! nyuk! (Highlight to read)

-Kevin

[Overtaxed]

Hehehe...I'll bring the pints, the wings, and the Fudge Stripes. :)

[HairOfTheDog]

We don't know about Legolas and Gimli do we? - Tolkien did not really tell us what might cause them to fail. He had already set up Boromir to be the fall guy. They were let off the hook by their creator, apparently. He hints that the rest of them would fail, but didn't feel the need to expand on it.

[ksen]

One word:

Or to paraphrase Shrek:

All right Hobbit! You're headed the right way for a smart bottom.

-Kevin

[Overtaxed]

Soitanly!

[ksen]

He hints that the rest of them would fail, but didn't feel the need to expand on it.

Penny1 is reading his letters, maybe she'll know if Tolkien addressed this somewhere in there.

-Kevin

[Penny1]

I think I read something last night that said no one would have been able to resist the ring, but nothing specifically related to Legolas and Gimli.

But then, I only just got them and have barely scratched the surface...

[Overtaxed]

He hints that the rest of them would fail, but didn't feel the need to expand on it.

Expanding on it would just be a repetition of the "failure theme" he took with Boromir. It seems to me that with Legolas and Gimli he chose to do the "individuals-from-peoples-who-don't-trust-each-other-become-fast-friends" theme.

[Penny1]

Here's my take on the "failure" theme...

I think Boromir's failure is to cause the reader to ask himself the question, "would I be able to resist?"

Are we highlighting book spoilers here? Highlight below to read: Frodo's failure is the answer that question--that no one would be able to resist. If he couldn't, a simple hobbit from the Shire with no ambitions to anything but duty, no one could if put to the test.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes, they already had a function in the group. Anything else happen in this segment of the journey?

I am reading the section in the beginning of A Journey in the Dark where they are dealing with the wargs... this is really good writing:

'My heart's right down in my toes, Mr. Pippin,' said Sam. 'But we aren't etten yet, and there are some stout folk here with us. Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf's belly.'...

...Gandalf stood up and strode forward, holding his staff aloft. 'Listen, Hound of Sauron! ' he cried. `Gandalf is here. Fly, if you value your foul skin! I will shrivel you from tail to snout, if you come within this ring.'

The wolf snarled and sprang towards them with a great leap. At that moment there was a sharp twang. Legolas had loosed his bow. There was a hideous yell, and the leaping shape thudded to the ground; the elvish arrow had pierced its throat. The watching eyes were suddenly extinguished. Gandalf and Aragorn strode forward, but the hill was deserted; the hunting packs had fled. All about them the darkness grew silent, and no cry came on the sighing wind...

...In the leaping light, as the fresh wood blazed up, Frodo saw many grey shapes spring over the ring of stones. More and more followed. Through the throat of one huge leader Aragorn passed his sword with a thrust; with a great sweep Boromir hewed the head off another. Beside them Gimli stood with his stout legs apart, wielding his dwarf-axe. The bow of Legolas was singing.

In the wavering firelight Gandalf seemed suddenly to grow: he rose up, a great menacing shape like the monument of some ancient king of stone set upon a hill. Stooping like a cloud, he lifted a burning branch and strode to meet the wolves. They gave back before him. High in the air he tossed the blazing brand. It flared with a sudden white radiance like lightning; and his voice rolled like thunder.

`Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!' he cried.

There was a roar and a crackle, and the tree above him burst into a leaf and bloom of blinding flame. The fire leapt from tree-top to tree-top. The whole hill was crowned with dazzling light. The swords and knives of the defenders shone and flickered. The last arrow of Legolas kindled in the air as it flew, and plunged burning into the heart of a great wolf-chieftain. All the others fled. Slowly the fire died till nothing was left but falling ash and sparks; a bitter smoke curled above the burned tree-stumps, and blew darkly from the hill, as the first light of dawn came dimly in the sky. Their enemies were routed and did not return.

`What did I tell you, Mr. Pippin? ' said Sam, sheathing his sword. `Wolves won't get him. That was an eye-opener, and no mistake! Nearly singed the hair off my head!'

I just love the dialogue... makes it hard to know when to stop with the cutting and pasting... hehehe

Jen... what exactly did Gandalf say to the wargs up there?

[Overtaxed]

what exactly did Gandalf say to the wargs up there?

Bad dogs! Bad! Why not? I'm already in the Corner!