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1 posted on 04/12/2002 5:43:45 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
So, what was it? The Flu?
2 posted on 04/12/2002 6:36:16 AM PDT by Darth Reagan
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To: blam
The modern version of the plague usually occurs when there is an increase in the number of rat deaths - something not recorded during the 1300s.

My quibble with this is that I doubt that this(a rat dieoff) would be considered of great importance at the time and that the records we have are no where near as complete as you would think.

I am not saying that they are wrong but that I think that this is a far to flimsy hook to hang this theory on.

a. cricket

3 posted on 04/12/2002 7:30:54 AM PDT by another cricket
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To: blam
The modern version of the plague usually occurs when there is an increase in the number of rat deaths - something not recorded during the 1300s.

My quibble with this is that I doubt that this(a rat dieoff) would be considered of great importance at the time and that the records we have are no where near as complete as you would think.

I am not saying that they are wrong but that I think that this is a far to flimsy hook to hang this theory on.

a. cricket

4 posted on 04/12/2002 7:30:55 AM PDT by another cricket
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To: blam
Ancestor to AIDS but a lot faster?
7 posted on 04/12/2002 7:42:30 AM PDT by Just another Joe
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To: blam
"barriers which would have restricted rats"

It is these same barriers that have, for centuries now, have restricted rats from...where?

You would think someone who spends so much lab time with rats would not so pathetically underestimate them.

9 posted on 04/12/2002 9:38:35 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: blam
Actually the plague was supposedly passed not by rats directly, but the fleas the rats had.

Back then, people often had fleas too.

-Eric

18 posted on 04/12/2002 12:22:56 PM PDT by E Rocc
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To: blam
Rats aren't the vector of the plague, fleas are. Humans had fleas almost universally then. Fleas can spread from human to human very rapidly. This one doesn't pass muster.
34 posted on 04/12/2002 1:43:37 PM PDT by CholeraJoe
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To: blam
A river considered to be a barrier to plague?

The organism, Yersinia pestis, could cross via infective fleas using boats, dams, tree limbs, bridges, floating debris, swimming animals, or catapults.

Plague arrived on American shores around 1900 from Asia, probably on a vessel putting into San Francisco. It's now found throughout the western U.S., and there's NO getting rid of it.

37 posted on 04/12/2002 2:45:06 PM PDT by AngrySpud
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To: blam
This theory is nothing new. A few years back a scientist wrote a book arguing that the "black plague" was in actuality a combination of several different diseases, most particularly--get ready for this--anthrax.
44 posted on 04/12/2002 6:23:18 PM PDT by white rose
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To: All
The incubation period of the 'Black Death' appeared to be from one to seven days from exposure before symptoms would strongly manifest, although some symptoms, like fever and headache frequently showed up before others. Whatever the Black Death was, it attacked the lymphatic system first. The term 'bubonic' refers to a 'bubo', which is an enlarged and inflamed lymph gland in the neck, armpit and/or groin area. These could be from the size of an egg to an apple. Then, black and purple spots appeared on the skin, and a bad nosebleed occured, signs of the organism attacking other tissues in the body. Those that died usually did so within four days of the appearance of buboes. The mortality rate varied from 30-75%, depending on climate (cold & damp kills the sick) and care given to the infected.

The most rare and deadly form was the scepticemic plauge, with almost 100% mortality rate. This literally caused the blood to coagulate in the veins, causing the skin to turn black (thus the name, the Black Death). This is most similar in symptoms to a hemmoragic fever, like Ebola.

As the plauge progressed across Europe, it changed to a pneumonic plauge that attacked the lungs. Victims coughed up bloody mucus at first, then as the lung tissues broke down, the liquid became clear red fluid, flowing freely. Death quickly followed. The pneumonic plauge had a 90-95% mortality rate. Also, this type of plauge was air transmissable, and thus extremely infectious. Was this a rapid mutation of the bacterium/virus, or was it another bacterium/virus infection taking advantage of the victims of the original plauge and their overwhelmed immune systems? Thus, in its later stages, it could well have been a multiple organism plauge.

The plauge killed between one-quarter and one-half of the entire population of Europe. If it was in fact bacterial in nature, as originally believed, then a new outbreak could be effectively treated with antibiotics, unless a highly resistant form emerges or is genetically engineered. On the other hand, if it was viral in nature, it would be extremely difficult to treat. There are breakthroughs occuring today in anti-viral drugs and therapies, but right now vaccines are the only effective and feasible large-scale tool to control a viral plauge. Developing a vaccine takes time, and it takes even long to produce in large quantities. Once you've started to manifest serious symptoms, it9;s too late for the vaccine to help you. A new and unknown highly virulent and infectious viral plauge would be devastating, possibly as much so as the Black Death of 14th Century Europe. This is especially true of such an organism purposely introduced as a bioweapon, as those wielding such a weapon would certainly release it at multiple infection sites in places where it would be certain to be spread quickly, resulting in widespread infection before symptoms began to manifest in the first victims. This would make quarantene efforts very difficult and far less effective, as the plauge would be pandemic before we even knew it was present in the population.

One thing that such a modern plauge would likely repeat from the Black Death plauge is the total breakdown of the social order. Everyone would be afraid of everyone, and thus avoid all human contact outside of their own small intimate social group, family and maybe a few friend and neighbors. Of course, food shipments to cities would screech to a halt. The various governments would step in, but their effectiveness would be limited at best. Fear, anarchy, infrastructure breakdown, crime, emotional breakdown, even conventional or nuclear retaliation against suspected perpetrating nations, all would cause as much chaos as the disease itself. With modern citizens being so dependant on society and incapable of taking care of themselves, it would get very ugly very quickly.

48 posted on 04/12/2002 11:43:03 PM PDT by Vigilant1
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