Posted on 05/19/2023 8:42:52 PM PDT by 7thson
I just listened to a Jordan Peterson video, and while I think he is perhaps the intellectual heir to the retired Thomas Sowell (if you disagree with this, please do not too caustic in your rebutal comments), he stated something in the video that made me question the meaning of far right and far left.
Right-wing politics I consider to mean limited government, with the citizens enjoying liberty. The further right you go, where there is no government, to me that means anarchy.
Wikipedia explains far-right politics as "...a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian, often also including nativist tendencies ... ideologies or organizations that feature aspects of authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, theocratic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and/or reactionary views." Far-left is described as "The term does not have a single, coherent definition; some scholars consider it to represent the left of social democracy, while others limit it to the left of communist parties. In certain instances—especially in the news media—far left has been associated with some forms of authoritarianism, anarchism, communism, and Marxism, or are characterized as groups that advocate for revolutionary socialism and related communist ideologies, or anti-capitalism and anti-globalization. Far-left terrorism consists of extremist, militant, or insurgent groups that attempt to realize their ideals through political violence rather than using democratic processes."
So, circling back to my above question, what is far-right?
On this plane is plotted everything, communism, lassez-faire capitalism, libertarianism, fascism, socialism, nazi-ism, monarchy, and many other political dominations. It all makes sense when you look at it. Unfortunately I can't remember which FReeper put it up; perhaps he/she will drop by and re-post it here.
Good viewpoint—I would also state that it takes two oars to row a boat (Don’t tell me about sculling)
Far-Right is a construct invented by Communists after WWII to put Naziism at the opposite end of the spectrum from themselves. I use Up-Down instead of Left-Right, where Up is all forms of totalitarian government - Western governments of today fall above the midpoint, Constitutional government is below the midpoint, and anarchy is all the way Down.
as usual i’m way off in the FR scheme of things:
to me far right = Jesus’ Kingdom of God.
far left = Hell (i.e. anti-God).
so, for example to me, libertarians and communists are flip sides of the same leftist coin. moral monarchy is far right and pure democracy is far left, but not quite as far left as anarchy.
I will give you the correct answer. I’ve dealt with this question enough to be able to provide an easy to understand cognizant answer as to why Nazi’s are considered far-right in Europe.
You have objective, right and left, and subjective, right and left. Objective right and left explains an individual’s relationship to the government. Subjective explains right and left in relation to the individual.
The more objectively right one goes, the more individualistic one is and the greater the desire to have a weak government. The more objectively left one goes, the greater one wants his government and the less he wants for the individual. This is where the political line graph goes from anarchy to libertarianism to conservatism to Republicanism to Democratism to liberalism to socialism to fascism to communism.
Subjectively, one can be right or left when compared to a system or between individuals. Although, I would classify myself as a libertarian with conservative economic values, there would be people to the right of me or to the left of me.
The reason why liberals argue that fascism is far right is because they define it subjectively, in relation to where liberals place themselves. Liberals are in the middle between communism and fascism, with a slightly more lenient fascist beliefs than Nazism-fascism. In the liberal mind, there is no such thing as individiualism.
If it’s the four square authoritarian-freedom matrix, I don’t agree with it at all. I think the intent of that four square was to lend credence that you can be right-wing authoritarian and left-wing authoritarian. Which is bunk, somebody who is right wing is individualistic and no individual can take over a society and run it with an iron fist.
All authoritarian political systems are on the left for that reason, one needs government to impose authoritarianism.
Not an FR thing. I think right and left are conservative and liberal, up and down are authoritarian vs. libertarian.
Peterson stated that history provides examples of far-right and left policies gone too far. For far-right, his example was World War II and over 120 miliion dead. For far-left, his example was governments murdering over 100 million of their own citizens.
Even though I am retired U.S. Navy, I know nothing of boating. 8-)
Good analogy.
There is no such thing as a leftwing libertarian. That’s what makes that 4 square political graph bunk. Not a single person on the left believes people should be free to live their lives and accept responsibility for the choices they made in their life.
Thank you. An excellent reply.
I agree with what you said about there being a leftwing libertarian. Your statement on what they believe concerning individualism, I have a minor disagreement with. When I listen to these leftists, they firmly believe that people should be allowed to be gay, trans, have abortions, and any other type of deviant behavior. To them, that is individualism. When one points out they disagree, that there should be constraints to deviants, then they want to squash that type of individualistic thought.
Yes, they do believe that people should be free to exercise their sexual morality freely. Yes they do.
Now show me where they agree to pay out of their pocket when their sexual morality choices goes badly for them. There, they want to privatize their choices, but socialize the costs of those choices. :)
They want big government to provide freedom from the consequences in life.
I’ve always said that if a leftist attempted to physically do their mental contortions, they would break their back.
George Washington.
Q.E.D.
As the deliberations (conducted in the tennis courts at the palace at Versailles) continued, the assemblymen who believed the king should have veto authority began to congregate to the right of the president of the assembly. Those who thought the king should not have veto power congregated on the left.
And that is the origin of the political right and political left.
However, that was a single issue division. Politics rarely is about a single issue, and modern political divisions cannot be represented by any such linear construct. Not even close.
What the left-right analogy has devolved to, at least in the eyes of the left, is a pedestal for moral posturing. Right Wing: bad. Far Right Wing: worse. Anything they want to denigrate automatically is far right wing.
When they call movements with a largely socialist bent -- such as the Neo-Nazis -- far right wing, it has absolutely Sweet Fanny Adams to do with their political disposition and everything to do with the left's desire to associate any movement the general public will find reprehensible with the greater right wing movement.
In short, the terminology long since has lost any political relevance and had become nothing more than a political bludgeon employed most successfully by the Marxists to paint every wackadoodle in the spectrum as a right-wing lunatic.
Personal graphs that allow you to anser and few simple questions and hit "complete". It then produces a diagram that shows you pretty much where you are politically.
Two fundamental distinctions between progressives and conservatives come to mind.
The first is the sovereignty of the individual, highly valued by conservatives but for the most part rejected by progressives.
Another is a belief in objective moral law, also supported by conservatives but rejected by progressives.
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