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The West is Running Out of Time in Afghanistan
The Jamestown Foundation ^ | October 17, 2006 | Michael Scheuer

Posted on 10/18/2006 8:34:39 PM PDT by neverdem

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1 posted on 10/18/2006 8:34:41 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

at some point, a country that cannot raise an army of its own people willing to fight and die to be free - can't be free. yes, NATO could be doing more, we should be bombing on he Pak side ofhe border, etc. But the real question is, what are the Afghans doing?


2 posted on 10/18/2006 8:40:56 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: neverdem
The Taliban is a movement that is not going to be erased from the face of the earth short of exterminating the population in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We can defeat them on the battlefield time and time again but as long as people choose to embrace this form of Islam the battle will continue for years to come.

Karzai is a weakling who has been unable to project the power that he needs to put the population under his boot. It is the only form of government that these people follow.
3 posted on 10/18/2006 8:44:24 PM PDT by misterrob (Bill Clinton, The Wizard of "Is")
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To: neverdem

Yep, we inch closer to the battle of Islam versus the modern world.


4 posted on 10/18/2006 8:47:23 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: oceanview

Print, cut, and plant by your rose bush. Our troops tell a completely different story. Other than an occasional sniper or roadside bomb, they can`t hurt us. On the other hand, when three Taliban have a meeting, our Air Force crashs the party.


6 posted on 10/18/2006 8:48:47 PM PDT by bybybill (`IF TH E RATS WIN, WE LOSE)
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To: misterrob

they have an endless supply of fighters in Pakistan (and even some recruits in Afghanistan) to fuel them, so unless we bomb on the Pak side of the border, we can't eliminate them. and time is on their side.


7 posted on 10/18/2006 8:49:14 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: bybybill

they can't "hurt us" in a military sense, sure. but the battle is over the will to sustain a low level fight.

if its just an "occasional sniper" as you say, then why can't we pull out completely? certainly there enough afghan forces to stop an occassional sniper or roadside bomb.


8 posted on 10/18/2006 8:52:08 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: bybybill
"On the other hand, when three Taliban have a meeting, our Air Force crashs the party."

As they should dofor Taliban funerals.

9 posted on 10/18/2006 8:53:01 PM PDT by blam
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To: neverdem

Scheuer was one of the "brutal Afghan winter" types who predicted a disaster for the Coalition in 2001. He just revises the prediction every now and then, tacking on current news articles, the direr the better.


10 posted on 10/18/2006 8:55:39 PM PDT by denydenydeny ("We have always been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France"--Wellington)
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To: neverdem

Scheuer is an anti-Bush hack who's only quality is that he is also anti-Clinton. All his prescriptions are BS. This whole rising Taliban is part of the same defeatist meme that the Socialist media is using to bring suppport down for the War on Terror.

And FReepers are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.


11 posted on 10/18/2006 8:57:24 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
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To: neverdem

Hard to say. Michael Scheuer has criticized clinton recently for being a liar. On the other hand, he is apparently a leftist, one of those rogue CIA man who thinks he knows better than anyone else and is happy to undermine the government when they fail to do exactly what he recommends.

The problems he raises are real. But I think he exaggerates. No, we can't stay in Afghanistan forever, and we can't fix Islam without some help from the Muslims themselves, or a massive conversion effort that will need to be religious, not political.

Muslim remains an intractably violent and evil religion, IMHO.


12 posted on 10/18/2006 8:57:41 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Killborn

the NATO commanders themselves have asked for more forces there.


13 posted on 10/18/2006 8:59:07 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview

That's NATO. That's Europe's concern. We have our own forces.


14 posted on 10/18/2006 9:00:55 PM PDT by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
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To: oceanview
a country that cannot raise an army of its own people willing to fight and die to be free - can't be free

The Afghan National Army consists of almost 40,000 soldiers today, with several thousand more in training.

I was involved in their first major combat operation in January, 2003. They are motivated. There are some really, really good leaders in there, too. (There are some duds, too. They are working to weed them out). Many of the early officers were taken for political reasons, and you often have guys on the same staff who fought against each other some time in the last couple dozen years.

Ultimately, these guys will shoulder the load and we'll go home. They take more of it all the time.

I think Scheuer is mistaken to give as much credence as he does to the statements of Taliban spokesmen. Also, he seems to suggest that the opposition of Hekmatyar and Haqqani is something new. Both of those guys were with the TB and against us from Day One, even though both had fought against the TB.

The idea that Massoud's guys will flip as a unit... unlikely. More likely they will break up into separate factions as Atta, Daoud and Fahim Khan all have their own vision. The other two are nominally loyal to FK at this time, who is nominally loyal to the government.

Afghanistan has not had a functioning, legitimate central government since 1973. All these guys have decades of experience in which you needed to be loyal to family, tribe, and ethnic group above all.

As far as Scheuer's comments about tracking people down... I suspect that, although he was an agency guy, he was a Langley weenie that never walked that ground, and certainly didn't look at it with the eye of a combat infantryman or guerilla campaigner (as I do). It is very, very good terrain for hiding. Which is an understatement that should produce peals of laughter from anyone else who's been there.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

15 posted on 10/18/2006 9:21:31 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (Build more lampposts... we've got plenty of traitors.)
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To: denydenydeny

He seemed to rely heavily on some of the jihadi cheerleaders over at Asia Times.


16 posted on 10/18/2006 9:21:37 PM PDT by Eurotwit (WI)
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To: All

Wasn't the author of this article the guy who wrote "Imperial Hubris"? It sounds to me like the only sources he uses are Taliban ones, and they're probably not exactly the most truthful.


17 posted on 10/18/2006 9:24:54 PM PDT by Jacob Kell (CIA-Cretinous Incompetent A***oles)
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To: misterrob
The whole idea behind Balkanization is to never provide law and order. You give your administrator personal security, but never enough to provide security beyond a 'green zone'…the whole object is to keep the administrator totally dependent upon you for his mere survival, in return for which, he sells everything he can to pay for whatever security we will sell him. You only buy yourself headaches if you provide real security…they don't listen so well when they're secure.
18 posted on 10/18/2006 9:27:54 PM PDT by dgallo51 (DEMAND IMMEDIATE, OPEN INVESTIGATIONS OF U.S. COMPLICITY IN RWANDAN GENOCIDE!)
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To: oceanview

Things are going to get very bloodly next year with the Taliban and al-Qaeda no longer forced to fight two armies at once (NATO and the Pakistani Army). Because, of the Pakistani peace treaty with the Taliban they now can concentrate on Afghanistan and have a free base in Pakistan.

Unless we deal with Wariziristan our NATO allies are going to run because of political pressure at home next year. We may then have to restart major combat operations and heavy bombing, but unless we deal with Pakistan we can't beat them.


19 posted on 10/18/2006 9:29:05 PM PDT by jmc1969
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To: oceanview

WE can`t pull out completely yet because that create a vaccum that the terrorists would gladly fill. They and the fence sitters in Afganistan would call our leaving now as a victory, as they would in Iraq . We can`t do that.
please answer a question: I`ve studied a lot of wars and I can`t remember one with a timetable. If there ever was one, please let me know.


20 posted on 10/18/2006 9:31:06 PM PDT by bybybill (`IF TH E RATS WIN, WE LOSE)
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