Question about Japan/Germany

Me | 7/10/2007 | MrJapan

[PAR35]

The Berlin blockade.

By the time it was over, it was clear that a German military force was needed on the front lines.

The US even had to recruit former Luftwaffe guys to work on the planes during the airlift. Although fraternization was prohibited, it did occur, and that was also a contributing factor in the change in attitude.

A similar ‘front line’ scenario with regard to Japan has only recently developed.

[Gamecock]

Weinerschnitzel tastes much better?

I had a wonderful Schnitzel Sandwich for lunch. The Imbiß* just outside the main gate is to die for!

*German for snack bar, but that translation doesn't do them justice....

[Tallguy]

How about this?

In Europe, the Soviet Army never went home (until the Cold War ‘ended’).

In Japan, the Soviet Army never got there (Sakhalin aside).

Geographical differences (Japan is an island) also makes direct invasion problematic unless the US Navy / USAF suddenly went home — which they weren’t going to.

The defensive response of both countries were conditioned by very basic factors.

[MrJapan]

Post war Germany was divided with the east controlled by the Soviets and the west had a strong U.S. military presence to counter that Soviet threat.

---

Freakin’ politics... Can we live a day without this cr*p?!?
I know... the answer is NO! bummer...

but if the whole of the people who value moral values can get together and vote.. (and let your representatives know how you feel as ‘voters’), then maybe, as you’ve demonstrated for the last bill (’immigration’/amnesty)... WE (actually you, since I’m still here in Japan and don’t mean cr@p) CAN make a difference!!!

sorry for the rant... (ADMIN, gommene (sorry))

Ok... time for bed for me... read the rest tomorrow ;)

MJ

[PAR35]

There is always Wikipedia:

“The name Prussia derives from that of the Old Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians and Latvians; “Old Prussia” was later conquered by the Teutonic Knights and then slowly Germanised. The union of the Margraviate of Brandenburg and the Duchy of Prussia in 1618 led to the proclamation of the Kingdom of Prussia in 1701.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Prussia

And the Elector of Brandenburg became the King of Prussia because it was his only significant territory not historically part of the Holy Roman Empire.

See also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Prussia

[ClearCase_guy]

Prussia (Persia-Russia?!?)

Persia doesn't enter into this. Completely separate nation.

I'm no expert, but here's what I would say on Prussia:

Russia is named for the Rus people who were there more than 1000 years ago. Russia straddles Europe and Asia and has been expansionist in both directions for a long time. A long time ago, there weren't really nation-states, but regions occupied by peoples who spoke a common language. One of these languages is called "Old Prussian" and it gave it's name to a region that was dominated by Russian peoples at the eastern end of their domains. Both the Russian language and the Old Prussian language are part of the Balto-Slavic language group, so similarity in naming is not surprising.

In time, (800 years ago or so) this area was conquered by Teutonic Knights from Germany and became more aligned with German culture than with Russian culture.

So the land of Prussia is essentially a German place, with a name relating to an earlier period when it was dominated by Balto-Slavic people similar to the Russians.

[SpinnerWebb]

Why is sushi different from Weinerschnitzel?.......

Would YOU eat raw Weinerschnitzel?

[Red Badger]

I don’t eat raw (fish) sushi either.......

[Red Badger]

...It’s just not advertised, like Japan’s nuclear capability.

A former Prime Minister remarked once that, "If Japan decides on Monday that it needs nuclear weapons, by Friday we will have them."........

[snowsislander]

I wouldn’t exactly write off Japan as a military power. What they have may be small, but it is of high quality. I took a (civilian) ferry from Hiroshima to Matsuyama. It made a stop in Kure, which I thought was nothing other than a once great World War II era shipyard and naval base. There were modern Aegis class destroyers flying the Japanese naval flag as far as the eye could see. I counted 22 of them during our brief stop.

I have had the same experience of happening through a harbor town and seeing the Japanese Navy (pardon me, that should read the Japanese Marine Self-Defense Force) filling the harbor. It was an eyeopener.

I was aware theoretically of the Japanese capabilities, but the reality reminded me that we are talking about a navy that went from basically nothing to the overwhelming victory at Tsushima in a generation, and was able to slug it out with us not that many years later. I cannot think of any other country going from nothing to a major naval power in such a short period of time.

[Polybius]

A former Prime Minister remarked once that, "If Japan decides on Monday that it needs nuclear weapons, by Friday we will have them."........

......... a tecnological fact of life that liberals, who scream that "no WMD's were found in Iraq", fail to comprehend.

[ketsu]

29 tons of plutonium and a space program tend to help too.

If the US really cared about WMD(not control of the world’s oil reserves) the Axis of Evil would have fallen in the following order.

North Korea->Iran->Iraq

How much do you want to bet Bush screws up and lets Iran go nuclear? By the end of this administration Iran could have a space program(ICBMs) *and* nukes. How bout them apples?

[Michael81Dus]

Sure, Germany made the best out of the restrictions. Formally, Germany is independant and sovereign. But in fact, the country is still bound to the so-called “Treaty on the final settlement with respect to Germany” (09/12/1990), which officially ended the Soviet occupation in the former GDR, and the (formal) occupation of West-Germany by France, Britain and America. This treaty is s substitute for a peace treaty, which was never signed or ratified between the conflict parties of World War II. Regulations of this treaty say that the united Germany may be a member of NATO (which was a conflict with the Soviet Union, back then), or that Germany must not have NBC-weapons. I guess, that IF there was a strong political movement in Germany calling for own nuclear weapons, the government would build up nukes. But there´s no indication for that, and also no need. The US will defend its NATO parners with all its might against those who attack them.

[Tallguy]

I was aware theoretically of the Japanese capabilities, but the reality reminded me that we are talking about a navy that went from basically nothing to the overwhelming victory at Tsushima in a generation, and was able to slug it out with us not that many years later.

I happened on a Wikipedia article referenced on their "splash page" about the Battle of Savo Island. In a nutshell a Japanese Cruiser/Destroyer group executed a night attack against a similary composed group of US & Australian ships supporting the Guadalcanal landings. The IJN basically wiped out about half the allied cruisers involved & scattered the rest. The Japanese admiral turned back, in part, because he knew that JAPAN HAD NO NEW CRUISERS IN PRODUCTION and if he lost any of his ships, they could not be replaced.

Gives you an idea of the industrial disparity that Japan was operating against. Kinda like a major league pitcher knowing that he has to throw a shutout every time he takes the mound. Tough odds.

[nuke rocketeer]

BY dominating the European Union that includes nuclear armed France and Great Britain, Germany will not need to develop her own nuclear weapons. If the EU goes to its logical conclusion, then the nuclear arsenals of France and the UK will then fold into the EU armed forces, dominated by Germany.

[Tallguy]

If the US really cared about WMD(not control of the world’s oil reserves) the Axis of Evil would have fallen in the following order.

North Korea->Iran->Iraq

I agree to your observation about the "Threat Heirarchy", but I think that Russia/China underpin the whole thing. NK & Iran are operating within a loose framework of countries who see their interests as being opposed to those of the US. (In a way, you could put France in that category as well). Oil (specifically the access to it) is a factor (when is it not?), but I think this Iraq was taken down because it was 'do-able' in a way that NK & Iran were not, pure & simple.

[Michael81Dus]

I don´t think that this question is of any relevance. We all know that we (the West) will not use nuclear weapons preemptively.

[MrJapan]

Thank you all for your info... it puts a lot of the previously unknown into my head (as hard as it is :P )... It’s nice to be able to ask a question here on FreeRepublic and get answer quickly and honestly (and intelligent at that)... makes me wonder what the responses would have been if I posted on DUmmy or KKKOS...

I feel that this is proof that no matter what the ‘intelligence’ (university degree, debating skills), we (conservatives) are still smarter than the other side. At least I (we) have an open mind to expand our knowledge.
I just wish the young people of the world had that capability... In my opinion, there is not enough 1.discipline 2.responsibility 3.respect taught anymore because of the PC BS.

Again, thank you (and keep the info coming!!! I love learning about our past justices and mistakes to better our future)!

AND, finally, I’ve been in Japan for a little over 9 years now... and STILL can’t eat sashimi/sushi/raw fish. I can try (it really doesn’t have much taste... but I can’t swallow it.. keep upchucking when it’s about halfway down >.< ..I guess the thought of something uncooked erks me :P )

P.S. Now I have a better understanding of Japan/Germany... It makes total sense (I should have figured it out on my own, if I would have thought about it..). 2 totally different areas (scenarios).. Japan as an island... and Germany as still threatened... We needed all the support we could get from the communists for the upcoming cold war... (My words might be a little strange.. ironically I am forgetting some of my English... been here too long >.< )

Also, not mentioned in the above posts (or I missed it), the fact that the nukes were dropped for multiple purposes... detour the Russians for attacking AFTER Japan was defeated (and I did read this from a poster) and before a formal treaty was signed. All very interesting... and it shows me how different our goverment and public thinking was back then compared to now.

MJ

P.S.S. SpinnerWebb... that was funny (and sorta sick about eating “raw Weinerschnitzel”! lol

[USMCVet]

There actually isn't very much differance between the histories of Japan and Germany after the war: neither Germany nor Japan were allowed to develop forces that could independently wage aggressive war again. Germany developed the Bundeswehr and Japan her Self-Defense Forces. Both Japan and Germany were and are members of allied treaty organizations (SEATO and NATO) Neither country's laws allowed the deployment of forces outside of their countries for a long time and it has only been recently that special cases have been developed to send German and Japanese forces on deployments.

Both countries have essentially pacifist constitutions and have had about 60 years of peace and protection.

I'm curious: why would anyone think that Germany is "fully capable"? And why would anyone one want to see militarism start up again in either country?

[MrJapan]

neither Germany nor Japan were allowed to develop forces that could independently wage aggressive war again

True, but after WWI (from what I learned from my history classes(more than 20 years ago), was that Germany had the same requirements (damn... not the word I was looking for.. but like I said, I am forgetting my (important) English)... And we, as Americans (remember that was then and this is now), overlooked the Germans (no offense intended to today's Germany) making MASSIVE armor and troops between WWI and WWII. Of course this was done during the beginning, during, and the aftermath of the 'Great Depression'... The people and the government were more worried about the 'local' problems.. I am NOT the person to assume anything about that era... I just turned 37 years old, so I have NO idea what was actually happening during that time. BUT, from what I have 'learned' from my history lessons.. We were isolationalists. MHO, I don't have a prob with that... but in this day and age, it is no longer an option (ISLAM).... beside the main point of my original question... I now understand (partially, I think most people born after either of those wars, WWI and WWII, cannot understand completely what happened and what was involved... especially politically! The politics of then and now are totally from separate planets). I understand the 'agreements'... but what about the 'slips' in the agreements? (UN has much, if not most to do with this now)... History is a pain to keep up with... it keeps adding more and more to the list :P