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To: JohnnyZ
Chavez is trying to destroy democracy in Venezuela and supporting terrorism.

Chavez was democratically elected!
10 posted on 04/03/2003 12:42:25 PM PST by Egregious Philbin
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To: Egregious Philbin
True. But so what? He is destroying that very Democracy that put him in power. He changed the constitution, put in judges that side with him, and removed any opposition leader that he considered to be a "threat" to his power. If say, President Clinton tried to do the same thing, think people would just sit around and let the dictator continue to rule? I don't think so.

Also, this referendum, all it is asking is for a new election if I'm not mistakened. Not removal of Chavez (though that may be the ultimate goal, Chavez would still have a chance to stay if the vote were to say, go his way [hopefully without corruption]). What is wrong with that? Can't that be considered a part of the Democratic process?

BTW, what has the US done in Venezuala anyways? The only thing that the US remotely did was "maybe" support the failed coup to remove Chavez. After that, the US has pretty much stayed out of Venezuala, other then a few critism here and there.
11 posted on 04/03/2003 12:54:39 PM PST by Simmy
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To: Egregious Philbin
Chavez was democratically elected!

So was Al Gore; we're just holding Venezuela to the US standard. What's that Dubya says about the soft bigotry of low expectations?

16 posted on 04/03/2003 1:20:25 PM PST by JohnnyZ (President of the Ruth Samuelson Fan Club)
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To: Egregious Philbin; billbears
Democracy is a luxury of people who are free. Freedom is far more important than "democracy". SINCE being elected, UGO the paratrooper and former coup artist, has effectively suspended most checks and balances and rules effectively by fiat like his pals Saddam and Fidel. There is nothing wrong with UGO that winding up like Mussolini or Ceaucescu would not cure. Likewise in spades for Castro.

Please spare us the neo-Neville Chamberlain drivel about it being none of our business. Chamberlain isn't the poster boy for national policies of cowardice for nothing, you know. The last time people with this head-in-the-sand ostrichism were given any authority in the GOP, was in about 1936 when, having degenerated into a party of craven little bean counters in green eyeshades and sleeve garters, counting their market losses and weeping crocodile tears over the Wagner Act, we had fewer senators than at any time since Lincoln's election.

To refresh your recollection, it was Woodrow Wilson who used to experience uncontrollable ecstasies over democracy for its own sake and he was no conservative any more than the paleophonies are.

24 posted on 04/03/2003 3:15:51 PM PST by BlackElk (Viva Cristo Rey! There are plenty of conservatives but the term paleoconservative is a lie!)
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To: Egregious Philbin
Chavez was democratically elected!

U.S. keeping eye on Chavez moves - Senators told of trend toward authoritarianism in Venezuela *** WASHINGTON -- Directing unusually blunt language at Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, the top U.S. military officer in Latin America said Thursday he sees a trend toward authoritarianism in the troubled country. Gen. James. T. Hill, head of the U.S. Southern Command, gave his assessment of the situation in Venezuela during an appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee. ***

Hugo Chávez and the Limits of Democracy*** The 21st century was not supposed to engender a Latin American president with a red beret. Instead of obsessing about luring private capital, he scares it away. Rather than strengthening ties with the United States, he befriends Cuba. Such behavior was supposed to have been made obsolete by the democratization, economic deregulation and globalization of the 1990's.

Venezuela is an improbable country to have fallen into this political abyss. It is vast, wealthy, relatively modern and cosmopolitan, with a strong private sector and a homogeneous mixed-race population with little history of conflict. Democracy was supposed to have prevented its decline into a failed state. Yet once President Chávez gained control over the government, his rule became exclusionary and profoundly undemocratic. Under Mr. Chávez, Venezuela is a powerful reminder that elections are necessary but not sufficient for democracy, and that even longstanding democracies can unravel overnight. A government's legitimacy flows not only from the ballot box but also from the way it conducts itself. Accountability and institutional restraints and balances are needed. The international community became adept at monitoring elections and ensuring their legitimacy in the 1990's. The Venezuelan experience illustrates the urgency of setting up equally effective mechanisms to validate a government's practices.

The often stealthy transgressions of Mr. Chávez have unleashed a powerful expression of what is perhaps the only trend of the 1990's still visible in Venezuela: civil society. In today's Venezuela millions of once politically indifferent citizens stage almost daily marches and rallies larger than those that forced the early resignations of other democratically presidents around the world. This is not a traditional opposition movement. It is an inchoate network of people from all social classes and walks of life, who are organized in loosely coordinated units and who do not have any other ambition than to stop a president who has made their country unlivable. Two out of three Venezuelans living under the poverty line oppose President Chávez, according to a Venezuelan survey released in January.***

42 posted on 04/03/2003 11:40:15 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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