Why is The Arab World So Hoplessly Mired In the Past?

The New York Times ^ | August 6, 2003 | Thomas Friedman

[Valin]

Islam gives the Arabs a profound sense of being a chosen people of G-d. Therefore, there is nothing to be learned from us heathen scum.

Is that why they preserved and studied Aristotle and other ancient Greeks?

[RayChuang88]

Of course you do know that Moorish Granada had a library with 25,000 books, a sewer systems, streets lite at night, and 100's of public baths...

Mind you, the Moors that ruled southern Spain were in many ways quite distinct from the Arabs that conquered from the east. It's very likely the Moors back then spoke their own language as much as Arabic.

In my opinion, the reason why Islam grew so fast just after Mohammaed's time was just as much economic as political--after all, the Arabian peninsula was a crossroads of trade between Europe and Asia and down the east coast of Africa. Because the Arabs effectively cornered that east-west trade small wonder why the Europeans looked fervently for a way to NOT having to deal with the Arabs when trading for goods from Asia, hence the numerous exploration voyages from the 1400's on by European powers.

Ironically, many of the greatest achievements of Islam were NOT done the Arabs. Saladin was a Kurd that beat back the Crusaders from what is now Israel and Lebanon; it was the Ottoman Turks that finally overran Constantinople and put an end to the Byzantine Empire; and it was Moors of northwest Africa that created the great Islamic cities of southern Spain. I think within 20 years Bahrain, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates will be the richest countries in the Persian Gulf, mostly because all three countries have figured out that their geographical location could make them the warehouse of Eurasia quite easily and help revive the ancient trading routes through the Arabian Peninsula.

[Redleg Duke]

"What is it about the Arab culture that keeps it so hopelessly mired in the past?"

Because that sick religion preaches of nothing in the future other than death and paradise.

[Seydlitz]

Lawrence is not talking about how medieval Arabs acted and behaved. Rather, he is explaining contemporary Arab perceptions and beliefs about the past. The Caliphate was an advanced, tolerant and prosperous society. However, the modern Arab belief is that it was religious orthodoxy, not tolerance and scientific inquiry, that made them great.

Remember, it is not what the facts are or were, but what people believe them to be that shapes their attitudes.

[SauronOfMordor]

Of course you do know that Moorish Granada had a library with 25,000 books, a sewer systems, streets lite at night, and 100's of public baths,
And a very large population of Christians and Jews who built and maintained these public works.

Islam prospered as long as it was expanding by conquest, and had a steady inflow of loot, women, and slaves who knew how to operate a civilization. Islam's "Golden Age" ended when their expansion was halted. When they actually had to PRODUCE goods THEMSELVES, rather than having Western or Indian slaves do it for them, and exchange these goods in free trade, the Muslims sank into poverty. This poverty was only reduced when a new source of unearned wealth (oil) was provided to them

[SauronOfMordor]

But would it have happened without the Muslims? When I look at the rest of europe at that time I have my doubts.

The Muslims helped keep Europe in the Middle Ages, due to Europeans having to consume resources fighting off the Muslim invaders, the Muslims cutting off trade with Asia, and Muslim pirates cutting of much other trade

[the_greatest_country_ever]

Ditto, Amen to that, yes indeed.

[SpinyNorman]

Islam prospered as long as it was expanding by conquest, and had a steady inflow of loot, women, and slaves who knew how to operate a civilization. Islam's "Golden Age" ended when their expansion was halted. When they actually had to PRODUCE goods THEMSELVES, rather than having Western or Indian slaves do it for them, and exchange these goods in free trade, the Muslims sank into poverty. This poverty was only reduced when a new source of unearned wealth (oil) was provided to them.

Bingo!!

Add to that a group of allegedly wise mullahs, whose grasp on power and respect in their societies comes only from keeping their students in abject poverty and misery, with the misbegotten promise that killing innocents in this life (to spread Islam, and thus, the mullahs influence) is the only way to escape their self made plight. Treating women as animals is the only way for Muslim men to achieve some sort of power in their pathetic lives.

It is a horribly vicious cycle.

[NYC GOP Chick]

Friedman is one liberal who "gets it" about Iraq, who appreciates the boldness and promise (and the risks) of what we are attempting there.

No, he really doesn't get it -- this was just one of those rare moments of lucidity for him.

Usually, he's busy wasting column inches bleating and bitching about the Likud party, and hectoring Israel and the GOP with his moral equivalence bullclinton re: the Middle East. He can't ever criticize the so-called palis without leveling some sort of equivalent criticism of Israel, lest he appear anything but "balanced" and "fair."

The "NY Slimes/Saudi Peace Plan" just shows what pompous, self-impressed gasbag he truly is. Like I said, he has his moments of clarity, but for the most part, he's a leftist who's more concerned with maintaining his sophisticated facade of "balance" and "fairness."

[freeangel]

They are reaping what they have sown

[RightWhale]

Your comments are directly on target. The idea now is to act on them. There are already several agreements sponsored by the UN and signed by most of the countries in the world dealing with human rights, women's rights, and all these other rights. Now the mullahs defend their Islamic Law by saying that it is competing claims against human rights and due to cultural relativity no one can come inside their sovereignty and run their business.

However, and this is the easy part, when some of their students, and they are their students, take action outside their own area of sovereignty against someone under another sovereignty, all these claims of competing rights are made null and void.

These miscreants are violating human rights all over the world and if claims are brought against them, IN THEIR OWN COURTS, they will be shut down.

Make it so.

[Seydlitz]

Islam did not prosper by conquest alone. In fact, the height of Muslim civilization (11th-13th centuries) came well after the period of rapid conquest (7th-9th centuries). There is a gap of several hundred years in which Muslim conquests carried on at a much, much slower rate.

Muslim civilization atrophied for simpler reasons: Religious conservatism eliminated scientific inquiry, industry was shunned in the honor culture, internecine warfare weakened the rival Muslim states, and Tamerlane's Mongols smashed all of the Muslim states but for the Mameluks in the 14th century.

The Ottomans recovered things a bit, thanks to a series of brilliant sultans in the 15th and 16th centures. However, when these great men disappeared, the slide into decay resumed, as it does to this day.

[Alouette]

they preserved and studied Aristotle and other ancient Greeks

That was during the centuries B.M. After that "The Profit" told them to burn all that infidel junk because everything they needed to know was in the Koran.

[SauronOfMordor]

Islam did not prosper by conquest alone. In fact, the height of Muslim civilization (11th-13th centuries) came well after the period of rapid conquest (7th-9th centuries).

The period of rapid conquest in the 7th-9th centurues mainly concerned Arabia and North Africa. The "the height of Muslim civilization (11th-13th centuries)" came during the period when they conquered India (1175 to 1340 AD), Anatolia (the region which today includes Turkey, and which then was part of the Byzantine Empire)

[Light Speed]

I percieve we are headed to journeys within Islams machination obsession known as extortion.

If they cannot physically effect their desired will..they move to extortion...this is the historic path.

Papal Rome got tired of the relentless military option..and went to the vault for gold and notary land concession.
Current Islamic projection will not get either...so its a no brainer..they will tantraum again.

Sources for tantruam...
Currently..the Bush admin is taking apart their WMD designs peicemeal....North Korea is very much part of this.
Syria and Iran have lofted thier strategem on missiles..the reality is that the systems they possess are of low capability..and suspect performance.
for a few decades..the SCUD reality was a fear projection...now it is known..that the SCUD series and N.K. Nodong knock offs are useless as theatre weapons.
Iran is having all manner of failures in their R and D concerning the N.K. missiles and part supply..which is soon to dry up.
Some Islamic nations do have nuclear devices..but do not have a missile to loft a nuke...Pakistan may be the only nation capable so far..unless China has assisted in altering the warhead for SCUD configuration.
Israels missile aquiring system now offsets the limited potency of the Islamic missile.
it is projected by Janes and other intel sites that the Islamic nations are capable of deploying low yield warheads..250 -500 kg tnt..or bio/chem.
If they were to use them on Israel.or fire them on U.S. forces in the Gulf..it would be met by a level of Nuclear response which would obliterate their military capabilty on many levels.

So ..ya...they are going to tantraum for sure...and I suspect they will encourage Al Qeda and other terror orgs to be about afflicting the U.S. and Israel to achieve satisfaction..and effect a recovery..bywhich both nations come to Islams doorstep to parlay with respect.

This will not happen though...what remains is for the movers too destabilize current realities for thier desired outcome...ie..support insergent opps in Iraq..derail the Israeli relationship with the Muslim world...generate trouble to cause political intransagence in both America and Israel.

Islam will tantraum......film at 11:00

[DoctorMichael]

It's their religion.

DING DING DING

We have a winner.

[Salem]

      Unlike the inspirational verses of Isaiah or the advanced rationality of Jesus’ parables, the Koran only offers rote learning. To invest so much time in memorising such lines makes it unlikely for you then to question them. The little children taught to memorise the Koran instead of multiplication tables at the madrassahs (religious schools) have no spiritual maturity that would allow them to form alternative questions. At least the little children learning the parables of Jesus are advancing their understanding of how metaphors and analogies can be used to illustrate deeper spiritual truths.

      God has urged us to seek understanding above all else. In Psalms 14:2-3, this is equated with doing good. Hosea 6:6 says Jehovah desires the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings, and Zephaniah, chapter 1:4-6 says he “will cut off…..those that have not sought the Lord, nor enquired for him”.

      Consider too, Proverbs 4:7 ‘Wisdom is the principal thing: therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.’ Proverbs is full of such messages. And consider how Solomon pleased God by choosing wisdom over other gifts.

Quoted from ISLAM: A Critical Review

Economics, demographics, and political movements over the centuries notwithstanding, the writer of this articles' claim that Islam is an intellectually oppressive and bankrupt religion is his most damaging. The Judeo/Christain principles the West was by and large founded on are the key to its prosperity and freedom, as well as Israel's, an oasis in the midst of the Middle East darkness.

[CyberAnt]

It's a 4000 yr old hatred issue with the Jewish people.

[Tabi Katz]

Whoa! This from Thomas Friedman's pen? Proof that bright lights occasionally shine in dark tunnels. No doubt tomorrow he'll be back to shaking his finger at Israel, lecturing them to make nice with their Palestinian "peace parters" who will not be happy as long as there is a Jew breathing on Israeli soil.

I'll grudgingly concede, though, that he certainly hit the mark today. The disease that infects much of the Arab world (dare I say most, at least at the leadership level) values not innovation and production, but destruction and death. I'm beginning to wonder if crude bombs are the only things they've produced in recent decades. Could it be something in the regional water supply - or the Unholy Koran?