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CA: Deal clears the way for fuel cell cars in California
EE Times ^
| August 18, 2003 (4:17 p.m. ET)
| Charles J. Murray
Posted on 08/19/2003 4:07:19 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: *calgov2002; AuntB; fooman; PeoplesRep_of_LA; Canticle_of_Deborah; NormsRevenge; snopercod; ...
2
posted on
08/19/2003 4:08:00 PM PDT
by
Ernest_at_the_Beach
(All we need from a Governor is a VETO PEN!!!)
To: *Energy_List
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Battery driven cars = another enviral whacko failure of the Watermelon Enviral Jihadists.
I would like to have the money wasted by all of the city, county, and state governments on electrical cars, pickups and buses the past 2 decades.
I think that I told you this sad but true story. One of the women who works in the office where my wife works is a nice but totally confused enviralists.
She was actually going to place an order for an electric car in Jan 2001, when we were having the rolling black outs.
My wife told her that if she bought one, she would stop speaking to her except to make fun of her car that wouldn't run because of no electricity. Everyone in the office pick on this hapless enviral until she cancelled her order for a battery driven car.
4
posted on
08/19/2003 4:22:43 PM PDT
by
Grampa Dave
(Gray Davis = Bill Clinton without the conscience + Al Gore without the charm = Total Recall Time!)
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Translation - the environuts lost this one.
5
posted on
08/19/2003 4:23:00 PM PDT
by
taxcontrol
(People are entitled to their opinion - no matter how wrong it is.)
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
How fast can the cars go?
Just wondering...
DD
To: DiamondDon1
They have to design them, I guess!
7
posted on
08/19/2003 4:27:49 PM PDT
by
Ernest_at_the_Beach
(All we need from a Governor is a VETO PEN!!!)
To: Grampa Dave
Buying an electric car dependent on electric power while the state is having blackouts doesn't seem too smart! Duh!
8
posted on
08/19/2003 4:29:40 PM PDT
by
Ernest_at_the_Beach
(All we need from a Governor is a VETO PEN!!!)
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"We've left it open," said the Air Resources Board spokesman. "If somebody wants to build a battery-powered car, they still can." How wonderful that we can still build things in this country because the government lets us.
9
posted on
08/19/2003 4:34:19 PM PDT
by
narby
To: DiamondDon1
"How fast can the cars go?"
On the flat, the GM electric car was good for bursts of 75 mph, but I remember watching one in Los Angeles climb the Sepulveda grade during rush hour, during the period that GM gave them out for the extended testing period, in the early '90s.
This little piggy was in the far right lane, going about 20 mph, holding up all the big rigs, and the driver didn't look happy at all. I don't know if he even made it to the top of the grade, since regular traffic was doing 40 mpg and he fell out of sight quickly.
10
posted on
08/19/2003 4:36:23 PM PDT
by
spoiler2
To: spoiler2
Whoops, 40 mpg should read 40 mph!
11
posted on
08/19/2003 4:37:46 PM PDT
by
spoiler2
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
This poor lady is an art major from UC Zerkley and went to school during the late 60's and early 70's.
12
posted on
08/19/2003 4:38:23 PM PDT
by
Grampa Dave
(Gray Davis = Bill Clinton without the conscience + Al Gore without the charm = Total Recall Time!)
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I'd like to know how the enviros intend to create hydrogen for the fuel cells. If they respond by telling me that they are going to create them from fuel cells, I'm going to laugh my butt off.
13
posted on
08/19/2003 4:53:20 PM PDT
by
Dog Gone
To: DiamondDon1
0-60 in about three days.
To: Dog Gone
I'd like to know how the enviros intend to create hydrogen for the fuel cells. it would appear to me that propane would be the most likely fuel simply because the pressures are easily manageable and the delivery systems exist.
To me, to focus upon cars as a way to start this market is terribly wrong. The risk is outrageous, because the cost of developing a proven safe fuel delivery infrastructure is astronomical for an enormous market that doesn't exist. IMHO, the natural initial market for fuel cells would be stationary propane applications in remote locations, where line losses and maintenance costs warranted a replacement. Then we could convert that system to LNG. Once the stationary LNG infrastructure was there, then an automotive system might make more sense.
I think that hybrid cars make a nice bridge technology to fuel cells. It creates the opportunity to develop the drive train for the day when the source is fully proven.
15
posted on
08/19/2003 5:09:25 PM PDT
by
Carry_Okie
(California! See how low WE can go!)
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Any calculation of how 'clean' these cars are must include:
the cost of manufacturing all the batteries and disposing of their noxious contents
and, the cost and means of generating any electricity that might be used to charge them
and, the cost and means of production of any hydrogen source they might require.
When the math is real, these things are revealed as the BOONDOGGLE they really are.
16
posted on
08/19/2003 5:10:16 PM PDT
by
Petronski
(I'm not always cranky.)
To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I like to ask advocates of all-electric vehicles: how will you air-condition it?
Silence.
The A/C can take more power than the engine at highway speeds. The usual solution is (Surprise!) a small gasoline engine to run the air conditioner.
Imagine an all-electric battery car in a hot place like, say, Phoenix...
--Boris
17
posted on
08/19/2003 5:15:56 PM PDT
by
boris
(Education is always painful; pain is always educational.)
To: Carry_Okie
"
Then we could convert that system to LNG. Once the stationary LNG infrastructure was there, then an automotive system might make more sense."So what do you think of the safety issue of all those people handling LNG?
Remember, it's pressurized to some 2,000 psi in order to become a liquid.
To: Carry_Okie
If we develop energy sources, like nukes, that can deliver power to create the hydrogen, that would be nice.
But somehow the public may be under the impression that a new, pollution-free energy source exists.
It's not true. We can't drill a hydrogen well. Hydrogen has to be manufactured, and it will necessarily require more energy to do so than the hydrogen produces.
We can't fool Mother Nature.
19
posted on
08/19/2003 5:32:06 PM PDT
by
Dog Gone
To: Dog Gone
The hydrogen can be derived from water in units that sit in your home garage. The byproducts are hydrogen and oxygen.
20
posted on
08/19/2003 5:54:10 PM PDT
by
Bob J
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