CA: Deal clears the way for fuel cell cars in California

EE Times ^ | August 18, 2003 (4:17 p.m. ET) | Charles J. Murray

[Dog Gone]

Yes, and how do you propose to power them? Or have you figured out a way that creates hydrogen without power?

[SSN558]

Translation - the environuts lost this one.

The public also lost on this one owing the the waste of resources on a Serria Club Opium dream. The automakers lost money on research that all the experts said was going now where. The environment lost due to passing years without a pollution solution based on scientific reality. The CA economy lost owing to the purchase of electic vehicles by the state with taxpayer money.

The environuts are not hanging from lamp poles, I would say they got away with it, and achieved one of their incremental goals.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

You are letting facts cloud our vision out here!!! LOL!

[Carry_Okie]

Remember, it's pressurized to some 2,000 psi in order to become a liquid.

Obviously. That's why I think it's currently such a bad idea for cars. As a substitute for propane delivery however, it might not be so bad. That service is performed by a trained professional. After developing that larger scale infrastructure (IOW from the compression plant to the local distributor, to the tank at a house), the technical developments necessary to fuel cars might be further along: hoses, connectors, crash-worthy fire resistant storage vessels, etc.

Remember, hydraulic hoses with dry break quick-couplers now handle 3ksi with ease.

[Carry_Okie]

If we develop energy sources, like nukes, that can deliver power to create the hydrogen, that would be nice.

I am not a fan of fuel cells that run off hydrogen gas. There are technologies in development that use catylists to strip the hydrogen off methane within the fuel cell. That seems to me a much more rational approach.

[truth_seeker]

Gimme a "nukar"

[concerned about politics]

Can battery powered cars full of enviroweenies be easily squished by an SUV?
Um.....just asking.

[randog]

I like to ask advocates of all-electric vehicles: how will you air-condition it?

Silence.

The A/C can take more power than the engine at highway speeds. The usual solution is (Surprise!) a small gasoline engine to run the air conditioner.

Reality comes crashing in. You could ask these same people if they would heat their house with "clean" electricity and they'd call you nuts--everyone knows it costs more to heat with electricity, but electric-powered cars? What a great idea!

Most of this nonsense could be cleared up if basic thermodynamics was taught in schools (I know, I know....).

[John Jorsett]

It's always amusing when a politician finally comes to the realization that you can't legislate economics or physics.

[satan]

.city, county and state governments.......... why did you leave off the feds? DOE has done a remarkable job!

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

If they build it, no one will come. Not at $40K for a $20K car. The libs surely live in a dream world. I wish they would stay there and leave the rest of us alone.

[concerned about politics]

If they build it, no one will come. Not at $40K for a $20K car. The libs surely live in a dream world. I wish they would stay there and leave the rest of us alone.

LOL. Remember "It"? Whole cities were suppose to be built to accomodate them, and cars were to be a thing of the past? Yeh, riiiiight. They're a real blessing. LOL.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

I remember "Cousin It"... But I think you are referring to the extremely over-hyped Spielburg et. al. mystery transportation device that was announced last year and quickly went pffffffffft after sane people learned about it and said: "Huh? Like I'd really want to be ground into road kill encountering an eighteen-wheeler while riding one of these useless toys!" Great point of evidence, FRiend! The libs are truly insipid, impractical, intolerant, and insane.

[Boss_Jim_Gettys]

"I'd like to know how the enviros intend to create hydrogen for the fuel cells."

I don't know how the enviros will make hydrogen for the fuel cells but Toyota, GM, etc. will have an on-board reformer to produce hydrogen from gasoline or methanol "on-demand."

Since both are liquid fuels, the current infrastructure (storage, pipelines, fuel outlets) can be used with little modification.

[Fee]

In the age of terroism, is it wise to develop hydrogen/propane fueled vehicles. Now Al Qaida can rent a vehicle with the largest fuel tank possible (info from internet research), tapes a wireless small detonator to the propane/hydrogen fuel tank, drives it to a crowded mall and screams "Allah Akbar!!!" before he floors the accelerator pedal.

[edchambers]

This whole thing seems kind of stupid to me since we've known for oh about 100 years that the internal combustion engine can be made to run on the clean burning infinately renewable resource of grain alchohol.And yes I've heard that it takes nearly as much energy to make alchohol as it yields but I think this would be a much simpler problem to solve than the multitude of unsolved problems with fuel cell technology or electric vehicals.

[let freedom sing]

"...Sold to an American..."