Liturgy in the Worship Space - LA style

Catholic Los Angeles Blogspot ^ | March 1, 2005 | Catholic LA Blogspot

[thor76]

"It's perfectly fitting, then, that those who find God boring replace the Roman Ritual -- as far as possible -- with the kind of floor show you see above (That's the Cardinal Archbishop of Los Angeles under the second E of EEK -- at the youth mass for the recent Religious Ed Congress). Face it, when you need an electric bass and dancing cheerleaders to keep your audience from fidgeting or drifting away, you're admitting the Main Act is a flop from the get-go."

[thor76]

Comments? There are too many to be made. Have fun reading this one. The realities described pertaining to the Archdiocese of Los angeles are such that I was not sure whether to laugh or cry.

[thor76]

Mahoneyensis Pukus Maximus et Pingus.........

[dsc]

Call me naive if you will, but I am stunned that he would tell an outright lie, about something so easily checked.

No liturgical abuses? He couldn't possibly believe that.

[murphE]

Call me naive if you will, but I am stunned that he would tell an outright lie, about something so easily checked.

Re: Cardinal Mahoney

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. But if I say the truth, you believe me not." John 8. 44-45

I believe the Cardinal reasoned that the abuses (that he and his minions introduced) had become local practice and therefor acceptable. Much like how communion in the hand was introduced. If there are no consequences for not adhering to the rules, why should he not believe that he can do whatever he likes? The obedient faithful laity reason (falsely), if it comes from the top, it must be OK.

Given the behavior he has demonstrated, there is no evidence that this Cardinal holds any beliefs that can be said to be even remotely Catholic, and yet he remains "in communion with Rome", and granted full use of all the powers that go along with being a faithful prince of the Church.

Call me naive, but how any Catholic can deny the depth of the crisis within the Church, and even posit that somehow we are in a new springtime, is beyond me.

[murphE]

Things like this,

like this,

and like this,

are the reason for prayers like this:

Litany of Reparation to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament

[siunevada]

I think critics have incorrectly mashed together the opening ceremony of the conference with the Mass and assumed they were one seamless activity.

Having said that, I did have fun captioning the photo of the singer at the opening ceremony with the dancers and the Cardinal in the background. Hooray for Hollywood!

[vox_freedom]

Any faithful Catholic who views these pictures SHOULD BE OUTRAGED. They are an affront to the Liturgy (yes, even the NO) and violate explicit AmChurch rules and guidelines as they pertain to liturgical rubrics. The Cardinal is participating in a sacrilegious ceremony that is, to put it bluntly, shameful. But, we know that Cardinal Ma-honey (he of the jail architecture cathedral; notorious abuses throughout his diocese; enabling pedophiles and homosexuals to run his diocese; and liturgical abuses such as this) is without shame.
May God have mercy on us, and pray to Our Lady for her guidance and intercession.

[Dominick]

The dance was not at the Mass, AFAIK. Liturgical dancing is banned only in the west. How would dancing outside liturgy be outrageous? Unless you have something that explains that the dance occurred during a liturgy of some type, I think the pictures don't tell any story at all.

On a side note, please lets act like adults.

[murphE]

On a side note, please lets act like adults.

Good. Anytime you want to stop defending the indefensible let me know.

From the diocesan website:

ARENA LITURGY

[murphE]

Any faithful Catholic who views these pictures SHOULD BE OUTRAGED.

Tell Dominick. He likes to use Pharisaical legalism to justify these abominations in that the dancing girls may have occurred as the opening act to the "mass" and not technically part of the "mass".

Funny though, no comment about the Body of Our Lord in the Most Blessed Sacrament in a wicker basket on what looks like a plywood box, for all of the scandalized 38,000 there to see. I bet more money was spent on the costumes of the dancers in the big production number than on the "sacred vessels" and "altar".

[ArrogantBustard]

< snort >

For all their "careful, nuanced, liturgical planning", they can't manage to get the Paschal Candle properly installed in its holder.

[ArrogantBustard]

Even if we ignore the dancers (I'll ass-u-me for the sake of discussion that they performed other than during Mass), the wicker basket is a prohibited substitute for a ciborium, the glass glass is a prohibited substitute for a chalice, and the multiple jugs of wine are also prohibited. Roger Cardinal Mahoney cannot possibly be ignorant of this. I haven't seen the bread he used, so cannot comment on whether it was valid matter or not.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Absurd. And pathetic.

"American Idol"/Reality TV liturgies next?

[Land of the Irish]

How about "Survivor" liturgies for those poor Catholics in LA?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Put a group of modern Catholics on an island. Hide various catechetical questions written on scraps of paper in various remote locations. Let's say 50 questions. First one to find and answer all 50 correctly is the winner.
Along the way various deceptive, liberal, modernist fake Catholics tempt each contestant to embrace the modernist parodies of Catholicism - Liberation Theology, modernist wreckovation, Enneagrams, minimalist/liturgical dance, etc.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

They would have to throw in a few clerical pedophiles and rogue bishops to keep it realistic.

[Clemenza]

Ping!

[Dominick]

they performed other than during Mass

Agreed. Bad theater is bad theater, we don't consider community theaters houses of impropriety. I have agreed with people that liturgical dance in the west is considered a liturgical abuse, as the CDF had stated. (Don't have the reference handy, thread was pulled.)

the wicker basket is a prohibited substitute for a ciborium,

This is correct. (GIRM 328-332, CH VI, sec III ) I the proper material must be nonporous, and wicker with cloth is unsuitable for the purpose. You can't properly purify the wicker.

the glass glass is a prohibited substitute for a chalice,

This isn't true, fine crystal is acceptable in the US and other dioceses that approve other material that are "precious". I don't think that is fine crystal. It doesn't have to be gold, Waterford crystal is more expensive than gold. Worldwide, gold gilt or gold material must be used. I feel better when I don't see a plain uncut, unguilded crystal glass such as that depicted is used. It is our Lord's Blood.

and the multiple jugs of wine are also prohibited.

Correct, unless made from nonporous precious materials. Commonly, I have seen crystal and gold gilt containers that are acceptable. The GIRM says solid precious materials.

Reference: Girm 2003

Roger Cardinal Mahoney cannot possibly be ignorant of this.

Either way SOMEONE there should not have been ignorant, hence that is a liturgical abuse. The basket clearly is, the other vessels just look wrong, but, looking wrong is different from being wrong.

Other pictures I saw showed apparently proper alter breads, they looked white, unleavened and more than likely unadulterated.

[ArrogantBustard]

fine crystal is acceptable in the US and other dioceses that approve other material that are "precious". I don't think that is fine crystal.

I agree: That stemware is not "fine crystal", niether are those pitchers. And there's no way they're more expensive than similar vessels made of, or lined with gold. They're also easily breakable.

[Dominick]

The stemware could be, look at the Noritake Paris images on google. Runs at $25 on sale, about $50 normally. I needed some recently, I am painfully aware about Waterford pricing, at $65 a piece, I am afraid to drink wine from them. I usually use Wal-Mart stemware...

Many crystal glasses are getting plainer and simpler. I still prefer cut glassware, and for Mass I prefer the best that we (as a Church) can supply. I detest those ceramic vessels.