Posted on 06/04/2015 2:31:32 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Jimmy Carter severed his ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, but apparently is still a Baptist (Maranatha Baptist Church). Josh Duggar and the Duggar family are Independent Baptist. Some will say that neither of them go to the right Baptist church or the correct one and thus neither of them are truly Baptist, just as some Methodists will say that other Methodists don't go to the right Methodist church and thus truly aren't Methodist. Some Jewish people may say that other Jews, (although quite orthodox in their beliefs) aren't quite Orthodox enough and thus aren't truly Jewish when it comes to their religious beliefs. Some Holiness people will say that other Holiness sects aren't quite holy enough and thus they aren't truly Holiness.
Some SCOTUS justice in the future could be Roman Catholic and render a verdict that the Catholic Church sternly objects to. Later on this SCOTUS justice recants. Was this justice a "lapsed Catholic" the whole time the were on the bench and no one knew about it until they rendered their verdict?
What about some Protestant preacher who everyone thinks is saved and it comes out that they have been doing such and such. Have they backslid or are they still saved, and just merely backsliding, but still saved?
So this being the case, which of the two (Carter and Josh Duggar) truly has eternal security (OSAS) and which one doesn't? Or could it be a case of just being "out of fellowship with Jesus" for the time being, but both are still saved?
Some may say that we can look at Carter's life and draw from that that he was falsely saved the whole time he was with the Southern Baptist Convention, but others can also say that looking at Josh Duggar life that he was falsely and that the truth of this finally came out. Some say that he has repented of his past sins that have come to light and thus this shows he was not falsely saved but was saved the whole time even up until now.
But how then can we tell who is falsely saved?
Is mere repentance enough to show that one is truly saved and has eternal security (OSAS)?
At what point does someone break the spiritual sound barrier and go that extra mph and thus show that they were never saved to begin with, and thus were falsely saved when everyone thought they were truly saved the whole time?
If a man were to stand up in a Baptist church and say that he committed adultery one time last week and one time a year ago but repented of it, and another was to stand up and say he committed adultery two times last week and two times last year but repented of it, and another were to say he had committed adultery four times last week and four times last year but repented of it, and this was to keep going higher and higher in number as more and more men stood up, with other sins like fornication, homosexuality, pedophilia and on and on being added to the mix at what point would anyone (let alone the pastor) say "We are thankful for your sincere repentances but some of you sound like you were sorry for your sins (and repented of them according to what we teach), but perhaps some of you were never saved when you thought you were (and we thought you were) this whole time and you need to come down to the altar and do more than just repent ("do an about face" --- which repentance means) but actually and truly accept Jesus into your heart this time."
But if they had accepted Jesus in the past and it turned out then that it appears that some were falsely saved, how do we know that this time it will be true salvation?
Yes, salvation is not by works, but given the discussions we have had yesterday, just saying the words according to Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus Christ as Lord and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" isn't proof that the person saying theses words is truly saved.
Did Jimmy Carter say these words at one time? Did Josh Duggar say them? How many Baptists/Calvinists have said these words and then later on something happens?
How do we know that any Calvinist-based person be it John MacArthur or Todd Friel or Paul Washer won't later on unmask themselves or be unmasked and show that they have been falsely saved all this time if Jimmy Carter never truly had salvation and thus was falsely saved (if Jimmy Carter was indeed falsely saved) for years and no one knew about it until later on?
Get a copy of the Book of Life. It’s all in there.
I don’t think an advance copy is out yet, though.
If Josh Duggar Did Certain Things & Had Salvation Can Someone Do Homosexual Acts & Have Salvation?
6/1/2015 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist
Are there people on MSNBC and Fox News who are catholic that are “lapsed” Catholics?
If so, which ones? How is this determined?
How is it determined when some backslides and is past just merely backsliding? (For Arminians).
How is it determined when someone has broken the spiritual sound barrier and when that extra mph and is now no longer considered “out of fellowship with Christ” but still saved but now is considered falsely saved the whole time? (For Calvinists and others).
Jesus knows who is saved. Unless He wants to keep you in the loop, I think you’ll probably be on a fool’s errand.
The GOP spends to much time falling over themselves trying to get photo ops with the Duggars or at John Brown University or at Liberty University and so on, when sooner or later they will end up with mud on their faces due to the photo ops.
That is the purpose of this thread. All Republicans need to quit doing any and all photo ops at theses places ort with Christian celebrities as it may come back to bite them.
And you spend too much time wondering what I am doing.
And please, refrain from Ad Hominem against me (making this personal and about me )and thus using a Red Herring in the process.
If you believe something in your heart, you act on that belief. The heart is used as a metaphor for depth, centering and fullness.
So then people like the Duggars need to keep their religion to themselves then, right, and not keep doing a show year after year?
Or can they parade it before others and we have to just keep our mouths shut later on?
Think of the parable of prodigal son..
If Josh is born again , he is saved..
If Jimmy Carter is born again ...he is saved..
I don’t know Dugger so can’t comment.
As for JCarter, he’d have been broiling in Hell long ago except that Satan doesn’t want his neighborhood down there turned even more rotten by having Carter in it
The Bible says “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?”
Are you attempting to equate sin with the loss of salvation?
So then there are possibly many, many liberal Democrats and liberal Republicans have eternal security (OSAS)?
I’ll let God decide if someone either was never a Christian to begin with, has backsliden but still follows the Lord (think King David), or has committed an apostasy such as to leave the SS Jesus by choice and condemned himself a la Hebrews.
There is no way any preacher, Baptist or any other flavor, knows a man’s heart. But God does, and will separate the wheat and the tares in His time.
Dude visit some other threads I am worried about you
No.
I don’t believe that one sin or two or three won’t cause someone to lapse, backslide or lose their eternal security (depending upon which of the aforementioned you believe in).
But how many, what kinds of and to what extent does someone finally go that extra mph, break the spiritual sound barrier and then show that they have lapsed, have backslid or were falsely saved the whole time?
If all of the above is a big unknown then it cannot be determined in this life who is saved and who isn’t.
So am I to conclude from the combination of ideas that I am to believe Jesus Christ in my naturally deceptive heart or are you failing at Bible-reading 101?
I find that I have enough sins to account for on my own. They keep me in fear of my own lusts and grateful for unmerited grace. I work out my own salvation and pray that I get it right.
I really dont have the time, energy or ability to worry if some person who I have never met or had a conversation with, is saved. If I come across them, I will witness to them as one broken and repentant spirit telling another where they can throw of the chains of sin. But I have SOOOO much work to do on myself.
Please.
Two threads on this along with all the threads in the past that have dealt with Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Scott Walker and yet you are worried about me?
BTW, nice try at deflection and Ad Hominem.
So then anyone in any church can do whatever they want and no preacher can take a stand and say “enough” like the Apostle Paul did?
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