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Delay ban on MTBE, report advises :Additive restriction could spike prices (California )
The Oakland Tribune ^ | Friday, March 15, 2002 | Jim Wasserman The Associated Press

Posted on 03/15/2002 5:22:36 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

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To: editor-surveyor
bttt
21 posted on 03/15/2002 8:35:59 PM PST by mafree
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To: quimby
I know the entire dirty story of MTBE, ARCO, The Clean Air Act Amendments in 1990 and GHWB ("The Environmental President"), the exemption from liability in the Amendments demanded by the oil companies... , AND how EPA knew it was going to be a problem long before its first uses in Denver and Alaska in the 80s. That is why I put the supposed need in quotes.

Still, the addition of oxygenate (whether MTBE, methanol, ethanol, or some other compound) has been shown to reduce ozone and photochemical smog, even though MTBE has other problems (formaldahyde, vapor emissions, carburetor fires, and the like). The point is, a free market would allow people to buy some form of RFG if they want it and could ALSO make roll the total benefits and costs of different constituents into price of that decision. It can also be done objectively. If the residents of that area want cleaner air, they should be allowed to pay for it. A single gasoline spec for the nation prevents anyone from competitively benefitting by inventing improvements at lower cost. Why not?

22 posted on 03/15/2002 8:58:03 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: editor-surveyor
A study commissioned last October estimated it will cost $29 billion to remove MTBE from water and soil nationwide. "I think there may well be economic disruptions from phasing it out," Young said. "But there will be economic disruptions no matter when we phase it out."

Wow!

23 posted on 03/15/2002 9:06:46 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Carry_Okie
Agree with your comments, but would add that if a private corporation tried to add MTBE to gasoline, they would not be allowed due to the carcinogenic nature of that crap.

Its really a shame we spent billions to rid gasoline of lead, only to have MTBE put in its place.

24 posted on 03/15/2002 9:12:33 PM PST by quimby
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To: editor-surveyor
It's time for the hype to stop.

You bet. We really don't need MTBE or Ethanol.

25 posted on 03/15/2002 9:14:48 PM PST by quimby
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To: quimby
they would not be allowed due to the carcinogenic nature of that crap.

The carcinogenicity of MTBE is still in question; the one Italian study that has so far obtained significant results has not been repeated. It's persistence in tissue and groundwater is not in question. Either way, it was a poor selection and in my judgment possibly corrupt. It may have even been a deliberate attempt to grab control of private water wells. To protect the children, you know.

26 posted on 03/15/2002 9:28:06 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: editor-surveyor
If you look at the web site referenced at the end of the article it appears that they have done a study on a California based Biomass business to produce ethanol!
27 posted on 03/15/2002 9:38:26 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Carry_Okie
Wow, hadn't ever heard about the well scenerio. Sound plausible in light of what was done here in CA to small gas station owners:

The activities of another bloated State bureaucracy, the State Water Quality Control Board (SWQCB), have guaranteed that the big oil companies would have a monopoly in California and that prices would soar because it, SWQCB, systematically wiped out & bankrupted most of the small service stations in California by claiming that leaking underground fuel tanks were contaminating our water supplies and that this threat justified any amount of expense. However, scientists at the University of California in a published report recently confirmed that not even one percent of this purported threat to ground water ever existed.

From www.pushback.com/

28 posted on 03/15/2002 9:45:20 PM PST by quimby
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To: quimby
Yup. And it's worse than Wattenberg knows. He was on the radio tonight and rolled over for Gray Davis' front man. He really didn't have his facts together like I have heard in the past. I was really disappointed.
29 posted on 03/15/2002 9:49:17 PM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
Didn't hear the broadcast, but its believable. But one must credit wattenberg with being on top of the MTBE and other environmental fraud. Send him an e-mail. He will most likely respond.

I'll probably listen tomorrow nite on his regular program .

30 posted on 03/15/2002 10:11:24 PM PST by quimby
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To: runningbear;Ernest_at_the_Beach
Investor's Business Daily is predicting $3.00 per gallon when the MTBE ban goes into effect. We can only hope that occurs just before the election.
31 posted on 03/16/2002 2:34:48 AM PST by snopercod
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Here we go again! Its getting close to summer driving season, and its time to spike oil prices!

Lets see....they probably want $100.00 dollars per gallon, but will settle with $2.00 to $3.00

32 posted on 03/16/2002 2:37:51 AM PST by antidemocommie
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To: snopercod
Why can't we just go along with the program and make it $20.00 per gallon? That way, everyone will get what they want except the stupid consumer. He will get the shaft, as usual.
33 posted on 03/16/2002 2:41:49 AM PST by antidemocommie
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To: Carry_Okie
If I understand, there are dozens, or more, different formulations all over the country. This is done in obeyance to our true rulers the administrative bosses of the various fedgov agencies like the EPA.
34 posted on 03/16/2002 2:44:05 AM PST by Leisler
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-TOX/2000/March/Day-24/t7323.htm
Federal Register: March 24, 2000 (Volume 65, Number 58)] [Proposed Rules] [Page 16093-16109]

"...In some cases this requirement is met through the use of MTBE. While the use of MTBE as a fuel additive in gasoline has helped to reduce harmful air emissions, it has also caused widespread and serious contamination of the nation's drinking water supplies. Unlike other components of gasoline, MTBE dissolves and spreads readily in the groundwater underlying a spill site, resists biodegradation, and is difficult and costly to remove from groundwater. Low levels of MTBE can render drinking water supplies unpotable due to its offensive taste and odor. At higher levels, it may also pose a risk to human health. The United States Geological Survey (USGS) has found that the occurrence of MTBE in groundwater is strongly related to its use as a fuel additive in the area, finding detections of MTBE in 21% of ambient groundwater tested in areas where MTBE is used in RFG compared with 2% of ambient groundwater in areas using conventional gasoline. EPA is today providing an advance notice of its intent to initiate a rulemaking pursuant to section 6 of the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) to eliminate or limit the use of MTBE as a fuel additive. EPA seeks public comment on a number of aspects of this anticipated regulatory action, including whether the Agency should take action to address any fuel additives other than MTBE."

The EPA is responsible for this poison now in much of the nation's water from east to west, north and south. The all powerful EPA rammed this down the collective and gullible congressional throats, who once again accepted bad science for votes. Ethanol is only slightly less harmful but then ADM gives mightily to both parties.

35 posted on 03/16/2002 3:03:55 AM PST by yoe
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To: editor-surveyor
>ethanol

Well, this is just a coincidence, but it may be an interesting one.

"MTBE" is a famous programmer acronym for "mean-time-between-errors" used to track how often hardware or software malfunctions...

Mark W.

36 posted on 03/16/2002 6:38:32 AM PST by MarkWar
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To: runningbear
The rubber hoses that are used to distribute gasoline in my 914 don't hold up to MTBE very well. I've had to completely replace the whole set of hoses twice in the last two years. That's pretty expensive given that I put less than 500 miles on the vehicle in that time frame. The car is in Idaho now. No MTBE in our fuel. I'll be selling the 914 to make room in the garage for our two Saturns. It's so much better to hop into a car that isn't covered with ice and snow.
37 posted on 03/16/2002 9:47:15 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Carry_Okie; quimby
"And it's worse than Wattenberg knows. He was on the radio tonight and rolled over for Gray Davis' front man."

You have to remember that Wattenberg has always been a leftist, and his reason for entering the fray back in '96 was only to attack the oil companies. - That's why they love him on KGO.

38 posted on 03/16/2002 10:27:10 AM PST by editor-surveyor
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To: editor-surveyor
You have to remember that Wattenberg has always been a leftist, and his reason for entering the fray back in '96 was only to attack the oil companies. - That's why they love him on KGO.

Have to disagree with you there. Wattenberg was the only KGO host to support Bush over gore (tho I must admit, I can only get KGO at nite).

He also supports nuclear power, hardly a leftist position.

39 posted on 03/16/2002 10:43:03 AM PST by quimby
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To: editor-surveyor
You have to remember that Wattenberg has always been a leftist,

I don't think I do, although I wouldn't call him a leftist per se. He does support government control of education, because he enjoys the priviledges he thinks are due the university professorate. He did very well by that public education and therefore thinks it is a fine institution. He doubles his estimate of himself by coupling his academic credentials with his obvious practical knowledge, which is indeed too rare among academics. He touts his ideas as if he were the only guy on the planet so endowed, but you know, they are usually (not always) technically sound ideas.

He is a typical liberal in that he doesn't connect the injustices he sees with the consequences of policies he advocates, believing that nothing he advocates could possibly be wrong and that if there is a problem it because it was caused by people who aren't as smart as him. He doesn't understand that many of those problems are endemic to the management system he prefers. That blindness coupled with his practical ability and congenial condescension makes him a perfect spokesman for socialist elitism.

In his defense, he does do a great service pointing out scientific frauds. He also has the guts to admit it when he is wrong. It's not all bad.

40 posted on 03/16/2002 11:14:17 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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