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Let's see. Here's the standard you set for those who disagree with you:

Put it up, let's see it. Where is it, what are the numbers? Anyone, go for it, show it, details, not vague generalities.

But here's a sample of your statements:

I get a lot more solar power out of my system for the energy used to create it than all the tv sets ever built.

when the grid was down, which in some areas of the country happens quite a bit.

You can get a decent amount from not that many panels

you'll find most owners are fairly conservative gun owning folks,

everyone I know personally who has some form of alternatives is,

and that's around the country people who get systems like them

Just like the rest of the greenies, a lower standard for yourself (really no standard at all) - and also like the greenies - selfrighteous drivel in the exposition. Undocumented claims, unsupported accusations, and dishonest economic analysis. And, oh boy, the bolded passages above contain some really specific numbers. Typical.

Put it up mr internet energy forum expert. Take my dare and we'll discuss economics. So far all I keep seeing in the hundreds of articles and thousands of posts I have read on this subject, all I keep seeing is comparing a theoretical lease price with zero pricing guarantees with an actual ownership price for a consumer product, which isn't even close to being comparable. Show me ONE single public electric utility in the US that will give you a flat dollars amount for electric amount "service" contract that you can purchase and own that is 20 years. Show me a ten year one if twenty years is too long and you can't find one. Too much to ask? Why? It's a consumer product isn't it? Do you rent your furniture, or buy it? Would you rent a couch you wanted to have for years with NO prices quoted from a few years from now? How about your car, would you lease or rent a car for x-years without knowing what the lease payments would be some years down the road?

Compare apples to apples we can talk. Until then this is spinning wheels getting no where. Show me the contract, the name of the utility, their quotes, verifiable,then make an honest comparison, key word there is "honest"..

I'd be more than willing to change my tone on these energy threads if the lock stepping bashers would concede that single point-the comparisons are totally different, it's not even possible unless there's a comparable product you can purchase on the centralised delivery system market, for the individual homeowner. On home produced, with ANY method, you sure as heck can get a bottom line price, just waiting for the other side to step forward with their years long price. Not one year, a similar contract as your home where you use the juice. 10,15,20,or 30 years, same as a mortgage. I've asked this question for years to various people, and this is at least the third time I've asked it on freeps when the alternative energy threads show up so they can be bashed, and not one person yet has been able to find an example to support their claims. They always change the subject, so I'm changing it back DIRECTLY. Let's have a real economic comparison with actual PRICES. I didn't start the thread or write the article, but the article insists on comparing two different energy things as 'the same", then it goes off into economics. That don't compute on any other consumer article with economics, so it's just not gonna compute here. and I contend the entire basis of it is based on that most obvious lie. So take it from there. If you have an example that proves me wrong-just one, doesn't have to be dozens, I'll concede and tone it down, until then, nope, gonna keep calling the lies "lies" as I see them put up on this forum.