[Rubber Ducky]

I notice the article completely left out nuclear which, while not renewable, is far more efficient than fossil fuels. Then there is fuel cell technology. It is already powering experimental cars in Japan and the cost, once it becomes economically viable, will make fossil fuels obsolete.

The Saudis know this and are pumping oil like mad. We delude ourselves into thinking their oil pumping is a favor from an ally-- it is not. It is a means to extract as much cash as possible from a technology soon to be made obsolete by fuel cell technology. Oil has, at most, two more decades to be king. Were the U.S., Japan and the E.C. to fund fuel cell technology with a Manhattan Project-like priority, that time could be cut into 10 years or less.

We've all heard the saying that the next Middle Eastern war will be over water, not oil. It is probably true.

[arthurus]

The Saudis know this and are pumping oil like mad

They are so worried about it that they recently cut production, along with the rest of OPEC, and gas prices jumped up again. Perhaps you don't drive and have not noticed?

[FreedomPoster]

Then there is fuel cell technology. It is already powering experimental cars in Japan and the cost, once it becomes economically viable, will make fossil fuels obsolete.

And just what, exactly, is powering the fuel cell? Fuel cells do require "fuel".

[arielb]

but nuclear is even worse than fossil fuels. It's evil! EVIL!

[Stirner]

As I understand how fuel cells operate, they require fuel. That is, they require organic chemicals that can undergo oxidation and release energy. It's true that fuel cells can process a wide variety of hydro-carbons, but the most convenient fuels to use will remain gas and liquid ones. The cheapest source of such fuels will remain extracted petroleum and gas for quite a while because biomass and coal gassification require more energy input per energy unit yielded than drilling does. Fuel cells are neat ways to burn fuel, but they do not lessen the demand for fuel.

[Charliehorse]

How do we create the hydrogen? Hydrogen does not exist in a pure form in nature. Therefore it must be separated from other elements such as oxygen and carbon. One can produce hydrogen from water by using electricity. Where does the electricity come from? You use more energy than you proguce in this process. Not a solution is it.

Fuel cells require hydrogen which can be either in the form of pure hydrogen or "reformers" can be attached to separate hydrogen from carbon. The carbon and hydrogen combinations that are feasible to use in the reformer are natural gas and crude oil derivatives such as gasoline.

The fuel cell is more efficient than the the internal combustion engine The coming widespread use of the hybrid power source in automobiles (such as Toyoto's Prius which now gets more than 50 miles per gallon in town and on the open road) is more efficient than fuel cells and will be cheaper. Therefore, I don't see widespread use of fuel cells in automobiles.

New turbines are very efficient. Modern power plant design uses steam turbines to produce electricity. The leftover heat is recovered and used to generate by thermal turbines in two stages. The resultant efficiency qppraches 80% Therefore, I don't see fuel cells breaking into that market. Neat technology but no viable application except as power in isolated places or as backup benerators.

[Budge]

Oil has, at most, two more decades to be king.

Let's see. This was said prior to WW II. It gained popularity during the Carter oil "crisis."

It now surfaces on FR, where I thought most people knew better.

It is nothing but "Barbara Streisand."

[Labyrinthos]

Oil has, at most, two more decades to be king.

Another urban legend.

[boris]

"I notice the article completely left out nuclear which, while not renewable"

Except, of course, using breeder reactors, which are even more 'evil' than the ordinary sort. Just ask Jimmy "Nu-cu-lar" Carter.

--Boris

[reg45]

Bullseye!

[lawdude]

"...once it becomes economically viable, will make fossil fuels obsolete. "

You are dreaming, aren't you?