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Comcast targets Internet `abusers' but won't reveal limits
The Associated Press ^ | Jan 29 2004 12:21PM | Matthew Fordahl

Posted on 01/29/2004 5:28:58 PM PST by FourPeas

By all accounts, George Nussbaum demands a lot from his Internet connection. He streams video and transfers large files from his office. His family downloads movie trailers and his stepson listens to and buys music online.

Nussbaum subscribes to his cable TV provider's high-speed Internet service, which, he thought, was built for such high-bandwidth activities. Then, in November, he got a letter from the provider, Comcast Corp., ordering him to dial down his usage or face service termination.

Until last summer, the service was advertised as "unlimited."

But Comcast, citing a fuzzy "acceptable use" policy, is now cracking down on the heaviest users on the premise that their consumption could degrade neighbors' service.

A number of broadband providers are beginning to offer different tiers of service, charging high-volume users more. Some, particularly wireless providers, charge extra for heavy use.

Comcast, critics say, is trying to impose limits without telling consumers that the service is limited.

Nussbaum, who at first had no idea how many gigabytes he consumed, was willing to cut back. He called to find out by how much, but customer service had no answer. Then he asked how much he used. Again, Comcast wouldn't provide a number.

Last month, Nussbaum got a second letter threatening suspension or termination, so he decided to sign up for a digital subscriber line offered by his phone company, Verizon Communications.

"How am I supposed to know what my limits are?" said Nussbaum, an engineer from Plaistow, N.H. "It was actually kind of ridiculous."

Comcast's letters have been a hot topic of discussion on BroadbandReports.com, a popular online forum. More than 5,000 messages have been posted since the warnings started arriving last summer. Most offer comments, though some are reports of having received a warning.

"They have the right to control their service and offer different services to different people," said David Willis, an analyst at the Meta Group. "The problem is you can't keep changing the rules all the time."

Most broadband companies have vague policies, but Comcast's appears to be the most aggressively enforced. It provides no tools for monitoring bandwidth, and does not give any specific guidance.

Comcast says the few people who receive the warning letters typically consume 100 times more than the average user.

"The total number of customers who have had their service disconnected is well below one one-hundredth of one percent of our overall Internet customer base," spokeswoman Dana Ryan said, reading from a prepared statement.

But the nation's largest cable company refused to reveal the average consumption among its 4.8 million high-speed Internet subscribers. Ryan also would not say how many received warnings or exactly how many have had their accounts suspended or terminated.

A senior Comcast technician, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of losing his job, said letter-triggering usage is typically about 100 gigabytes a month, though it varies from city to city.

A hundred gigabytes of usage a month may not strain the system but some abusers, he said, consume more than a terabyte of data each month -- equal to about 1,000 gigabytes, or 1,000 copies of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Many run Web servers or offer copyright music or videos. Thirty minutes of high-quality video can consume up to a gigabyte.

Excessive use is a problem for Comcast and other providers because they must predict bandwidth use and buy the capacity. If too much is consumed, not only can the local network bog down; it also could affect Comcast's profit margin.

The enforcement comes as cable companies are trying to maintain their lead over DSL, which offers high-speed access over phone lines. Comcast and several other cable firms are doubling their top download speeds to 3 megabits per second, which makes it easier for users to consume more bandwidth and cross any limits.

DSL providers are fighting back by dropping prices -- as low as $27 a month, compared to Comcast's $43. The phone companies stress that they don't restrict usage.

They're less likely to do so because digital subscriber lines are not shared until they reach the phone company's facility. Cable users share the same data pipe with their neighbors.

"I am not aware of any DSL provider that limits the number of bytes available or charges more if a circuit is used more," said Verizon spokesman Eric Rabe.

But cable companies have a history of limiting use. Until recently, for example, Comcast specifically barred its residential customers from using virtual private networking software, which creates secure connections for telecommuters, unless they upgraded to the business plan.

"The cable companies in the U.S. have this history of trying to engineer multiple, tiers, multiple grades of service," Willis said. "So far they've been highly unsuccessful in doing that."

People who received Comcast's bandwidth abuse letters and were willing to discuss their usage patterns publicly were shocked at the "Twilight Zone" experiences they had with customer support.

Randy Jackson of Colonia, N.J. received form letters with blank date fields. Longtime subscriber Tallon Nishihata of suburban Tacoma, Wash., said his letters referred him to a pricey business-grade service that's not available in his area.

One man, a British expatriate in Philadelphia who used to transfer home movies to family in Europe, asked for anonymity because he feared Comcast would unplug him, leaving him with nothing but a dial-up connection because he doesn't qualify for DSL.

"They play the card that I've been causing problems for people in the neighborhood," he said. "If that's the case, that's fair enough, but show me some evidence."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
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To: HairOfTheDog
Ping
21 posted on 01/29/2004 5:55:26 PM PST by ecurbh
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To: FourPeas
I have Comcast...two words for them...of course they already know...Comcast S*cks!
22 posted on 01/29/2004 6:01:02 PM PST by Hotdog
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To: Bobby777
sounds like Comcast wants the "gym-membership" mentality ... $50 a month from people who don't show up to use the services ...

I prefer the analogy of the "500 pounder" parked all day at the $5.99 all you can eat salad bar......as opposed to the 1 guy out of four who actually uses his "gym membership" analogy.

This stuff will all work itself out.
23 posted on 01/29/2004 6:15:42 PM PST by mr.pink
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To: FourPeas
i liked my comcast but being on a fixed income i had to let it go. i signed up with netzero hispeed. it ain't comcast but it is $14.95. up yours comcast.
24 posted on 01/29/2004 6:15:49 PM PST by scott91
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To: tortoise
What's more, even if you really did max your connection 24/7, the real cost in terms of bandwidth today for a well run ISP is going to be pretty small. The cost of the core (non-oversubscribed) bandwidth for Comcast's 90GB/mo limit is currently about $5 wholesale. Seeing as how it is almost certainly over-subscribed, it probably costs them less than that in practical terms. It makes one wonder what they are whining about since the customer is paying a hell of a lot more than $5.

I think the issue is that there are some local subnets in the "last mile" where bandwidth constraints can be a problem. Still, the proper response to such problems would be to implement flow-metering at times when bandwidth is critical, e.g. giving priority to whichever customer has sent less data in the last 30 seconds.

25 posted on 01/29/2004 6:16:53 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: cripplecreek
AH HA. They have advised me that i was using my "unlimited" service too much as well. I explained that I had paid for unlimited service PERIOD. I dont think they have a legal leg to stand on since i havent been warned of my overuse again.

Absent a contract to the contrary, I would think Comcast would have the legal right to drop any Internet customer for any reason without any liability beyond refunding any payments made for services not delivered.

That having been said, I think flow metering would make more sense than squawking about overuse.

26 posted on 01/29/2004 6:20:36 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: FourPeas
MICROSOFT OWNS A PORTION OF COMCAST (13% I THINK)

MAKE YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT FACT
27 posted on 01/29/2004 6:21:10 PM PST by RightWingNut
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To: FourPeas
The solution is simple - drop Comcast and get a DSL connection. I have Comcast, and can't stand their setup - the digital box is set to turn on to channel 8, which is constantly spewing liberal garbage from philadelphia. I live in central pa, and unfortunately, I don't have a way to get a dish - have to move a mountain and a bunch of trees. I'd drop them for just normal tv if I could.
28 posted on 01/29/2004 6:28:32 PM PST by PattonReincarnated (Rebuild the Temple)
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To: teletech
I can't get too excited about Comcast doubling their speed. It puts me right back where I was TWO YEARS AGO when @Home drew its last breath and we were absorbed by Comcast. In addition to halving our speed from what we had @Home, they took away usenet newsgroup access. And raised the price the very first month. Eventually they coughed up a 1 gig/month Giganews account, but that 1 gig included message headers, meaning that it's possible to use up your quota without downloading a single thing, if you scan a lot of newsgroup messages.

Comcast... Oh, I won't say it...
29 posted on 01/29/2004 6:28:38 PM PST by DJ Frisat
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To: DJ Frisat
Eventually they coughed up a 1 gig/month Giganews account, but that 1 gig included message headers

They throttle the newsgroup download speeds, too.

30 posted on 01/29/2004 6:40:07 PM PST by Gorzaloon (Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
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To: FourPeas
A senior Comcast technician, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of losing his job, said letter-triggering usage is typically about 100 gigabytes a month, though it varies from city to city.

Is that considered high, my use averages around 10 gigabytes a month. I suppose if you have a family using the computer it's bound to be higher. At $43.00 a month if Comcast is going to be that way I'd tell them to stuff it.

31 posted on 01/29/2004 6:51:37 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: tortoise
Supposedly they are trying to protect the neighbors of the "bandwidth hog".

Cable Internet works pretty much like a local area network (within a company, for example). The more people using it, the more of that particular node's available bandwidth is consumed. It doesn't take many Kaaza/Gnutella/other P2P users to suck up an entire node's bandwidth.

A good example is where I work - there was a coach who was leaving P2P client running all the time. Our tech person about pulled her hair out trying to figure out why the network was slowing down so badly.

DSL works very differently from cable modem service - each subscriber gets the full speed advertised (within certain tolerances). No shared bandwidth. My local cable company has been telemarketing me to death to subscribe to their newly available internet service. Of course, their "unlimited high speed" costs the same as my current DSL service, but at half the speed. It's hard for me to trust a cable company for much anyway....
32 posted on 01/29/2004 7:10:09 PM PST by TheBattman (Miserable failure = http://www.michaelmoore.com)
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To: teletech
We have NEVER been warned about our useage.

You are being warned now, so fess up! It's "usage"!

33 posted on 01/29/2004 7:14:41 PM PST by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: FourPeas
Absent a contract to the contrary, I would think Comcast would have the legal right to drop any Internet customer for any reason without any liability beyond refunding any payments made for services not delivered.

A company that did this might get slammed for false advertising regardless of what the small print says. It will be up to the courts and attorneys general to decide if they are being deceptive.

But the deal here is that any business in any industry will, over time, establish a reputation as a jackass company and everybody will put them at the bottom of the list if they behave in such a way. They also create a VERY LONG memory amongst some of their most tech savvy customers, customers who are important to a reputation. Customers that are important in spreading via word of mouth.

Frankly, this sort of behavior is about the stupidest possible business strategy possible. As time goes by, and infrastructure improves, bandwidth will be less and less of a problem. But the reputation will last long beyond that time. Goodwill is on the balance sheet for a reason.

Personally, I certainly have no intention of purchasing the stock of companies that have no idea that the customer is important to them or that think that customer is gum on their shoe.
34 posted on 01/29/2004 7:21:03 PM PST by Arkinsaw
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To: tortoise
...what they are whining about

Probably the neighbors' whining. They misjudged the d/lers' demand given movie trailers, etc. So, when Joe Blows next
door gets home, the throughput deteriorates.

Comcast is trying to squeeze out, er squeeze in more customers without providing the faciltiies to handle the demand.

They're deliberately oversubscribing and overselling.

35 posted on 01/29/2004 7:47:34 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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Glad I got off comcast 3 years ago...They sold me on "3.5 Mbit/s downloads". Well, they throttle it to multiple downloads, but no more than 125 KB at a time where I am at..

On DSL now, good thing too...did 4 gig's (down stream only, that's not including my upstream) today alone.

36 posted on 01/29/2004 8:25:25 PM PST by Michael Barnes ( <a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com">miserable failure </a>)
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To: tortoise
"$5 month"

Networks are simple when you know how they work.

Comcast has at least 1000 times the cable miles and electronic components of a very large ISP/Backbone provider. Their cost per gbyte to get the data to/from the backbone FAR exceeds the cost of it's transport to timbuctu....

That company is providing a very valuable service, one which will continue to grow in value, to several million people. I've had their service for a year now and have not one single complaint. I VPN to the corp network and move engineering files.....from 5 to 200mbyte each.....and it's nearly as good as being there. I'm certain my usage is high, and they've not warned me.

The ligitimate position of Comcast is that their service is a "home service", priced and provisioned accordingly......and when people take advantage of that to conduct BUSINESS, they need to pay the business rate.

37 posted on 01/29/2004 8:36:32 PM PST by Mariner
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To: capt. norm
We switched to Knology as well (Montgomery, AL). They are more reliable than Charter and literally 4 times faster. Plus, we get a discount on bundled local phone service.
38 posted on 01/29/2004 9:11:51 PM PST by Sloth (Why fight foreign enemies if we are surrendering to the domestic ones?)
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To: Eala
I'd been considering replacing my 26kbps (on a good day) dial-up service,

26? Where in the boonies do you live?

39 posted on 01/29/2004 9:17:28 PM PST by cinFLA
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To: teletech
I just ran a test. 945 Kbits here. Have Comcast cable.
40 posted on 01/29/2004 9:17:34 PM PST by eternity (From here to...)
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