Poll Shows Disapproval of Reference to Cheney's Daughter

The Washington Post ^ | October 15, 2004 | Richard Morin

[Dems_R_Losers]

An overwhelming majority of voters believe it was wrong for Democratic nominee John F. Kerry to have mentioned in Wednesday's presidential debate that Vice President Cheney's daughter was a lesbian, according to the latest Washington Post tracking survey.

Nearly two in three likely voters -- 64 percent -- said Kerry's comment was "inappropriate," including more than four in 10 of his own supporters and half of all swing voters. A third -- 33 percent -- thought the remark was appropriate.

[AMDG&BVMH]

"Is the media coverup so effective? "

Partly; but IMO it is deeper than merely that.

Kerry is an invented personality. Not only that, but he reinvents himself as the occassion demands. He is a chameleon.

When we meet someone or hear them present themselves, we have to assume that they are presenting themselves as they in fact actually are. That is how society works. We can't keep a file on everyone we meet, looking for inconsistencies, etc. It takes a while of paying attention even to become suspicious: THIS PERSON IS NOT AS HE SEEMS.

EVEN then, the person's seeming sincerity throws us off again the at next encounter. All prepared to react to the truth about them -- they say something to discombobble us again. [Recall Clinton. Some people never COULD reach the conclusion that he was bad.]

IOW, an effective liar is, well, EFFECTIVE at deceipt.

Plus, he may even be honest . . . HE may not know who he is or what his positions are, either! ;)

Except VietNam, of course. That he clings to as his life's defining event -- BOTH in the war, AND against the war . . .

See what I mean?

[Justaham]

Is it a fair game for Bush to say, "Senator Kerry, since are on the subject of healthcare, obesity should not be taken lightly as it is dangerous to one's health. Just ask Elizabeth Edwards -- she's fat!


NAHHHH -- Bush won't stoop to Kerry's very low level.

[LYSandra]

and old "Lotta Bottom"Edwards should offer an apology for her tacky remarks to Lynne Cheney. What a loud mouth!

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

"She is a lesbian! Everyone knows it. Why is this a big deal?"

So's Barney Frank. So's Jim McGreevey. So are hundreds of other prominent folks that Kerry knows and could have held up as an example. Ditto for Edwards. So why pick on the VP's daughter, who is not a public figure?

Because the DemocRats are either trying to spotlight hypocrisy and gay-bashing where there is none to be found in Bush/Cheney positions, or because the DemocRat strategy is to attempt to drive a wedge between Bush/Cheney and the cultural-conservative wing of the GOP base by underscoring that (nudge, nudge) the! Cheneys! have! a! gay! daughter! ...It stinks either way.

Gays have noticed this, and are talking out loud about Kerry's "dehumanising gay-bashing"... which is what it was.

[jjmcgo]

The RNC is not lying. Their statement is true. Democrats will pass "hate-crime" legislation making it illegal to criticize gays. One of these crimes will be citing scripture. Other liberal countries that have passed such legislation are cracking down on clergy who cite the Bible's dim view of homosexuality.
Actually, we have the best situation, the American way, right now. The 14th Amendment guarantees gays equal rights and the First Amendment allows them to call religious people bigots and morons while allowing religious people to say homosexuals are sinful.
Our constitutional rights mean we don't "all have to get along," especially if that means all of us having to think the same way.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Mark my word, the dems are DEMS UNGLUED, you watch, Kerry and Kerry steam will look at the numbers, and just before the election while on his champain stumpspeach, he is going to have his ( DEAN ) moment, AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGhhhhhhh

[BlueYonder]

>>Bob Barr just saying that the outrage is outrageous. Siding with Al Franken.<<

I gotta be honest. There have been a few occassions when I'd like to show both of these clowns the back of my hand </mobster talk>

[Timeout]

This article has an error which needs to be corrected:

Both Cheneys have been open about their daughter's sexual orientation, which had been briefly mentioned by Sen. John Edwards and Cheney in the vice presidential debate the previous week.

That is FALSE. Here is the question and answer where the subject came up in that debate:

IFILL: The next question goes to you, Mr. Vice President.

I want to read something you said four years ago at this very setting: "Freedom means freedom for everybody." You said it again recently when you were asked about legalizing same-sex unions. And you used your family's experience as a context for your remarks.

Can you describe then your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same-sex unions?

CHENEY: Gwen, you're right, four years ago in this debate, the subject came up. And I said then and I believe today that freedom does mean freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to choose any arrangement they want. It's really no one else's business.

That's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization, if you will, to these relationships.

Traditionally, that's been an issue for the states. States have regulated marriage, if you will. That would be my preference.

In effect, what's happened is that in recent months, especially in Massachusetts, but also in California, but in Massachusetts we had the Massachusetts Supreme Court direct the state of -- the legislature of Massachusetts to modify their constitution to allow gay marriage.

And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned.

Now, he sets the policy for this administration, and I support the president.

[Edwards then made his gratuitous comment about Mary Cheney]

Cheney did not mention his daughter. So how did Mr. Morin get it wrong? The only conceivable answer is that he accepted the Kerry campaign's spin without checking. Kerry's strategists have evidently calculated that it helps their case if the public believes that Cheney raised the subject.

This is so crass, so juvenile and so easily checked...I'm writing a letter to the ombudsman right now.

[OldFriend]

Ever since Barr lost his seat, joined the ACLU, and spoken out against republicans at every opportunity we know he's nothing more than a political hack.

[ShandaLear]

"3. I.E. why not McGreevey?? The courageous out-comer of the Democratic Party?? Oh, that would bring up a Democratic embarrassment; better to hang the hypothetical he is positing on a woman, someone's daughter, who just HAPPENS to be, coincidentally, the daughter of the Vice President!"

This one would have assured Kerry a win in New Jersey. /sarcasm

[AMDG&BVMH]

"another parent passing judgment on their child. It's offensive and rude."

and also passing judgment on their parenting competency and relationship with THEIR OWN CHILD -- as Ms. Edwards had the audacity to do

[beckysueb]

He thinks he can point to hypocrisy on the part of B/C cause they are for the ban on gay marriage, also he thinks he can turn the Christain Coalition away from voting and he thinks he can get the southern vote away from Bush.

[beckysueb]

The kooks are using that as their talking points now.

[beckysueb]

Yes but its nobodys business but the Cheney's. No one should have the sex life of their children discussed on national television.

[beckysueb]

Its the media cover up. Nothing really gets through to the public.

[Ex-Dem]

It's sleazy because it's using the private life of your opponent's family for your own political gain. Mary Cheney may in fact agree with the gist of Kerry's argument that homosexuality is not a choice, but I strongly doubt that she would appreciate and condone the fact that he's using her sexual orientation in a subtle bid to damage the Bush/Cheney campaign. It's akin to a situation where the Bushes have a quadraplegic son and Kerry says "If you ask [name of the son] about stem cell research, I think he'll tell you that he supports it and disagrees with his father's position."

[cubreporter]

I believe there is a lot more than we know. If you think about it it is always those who have the least to say that speak the loudest. That being of course the dem/libs. Even in print John (He is NOT a good man) Kerry looks wimpy.

President John Kerry compared to President George W. Bush.

John (He is NOT a good man) Kerry pales in comparison.

Re: the breck girl & Vice President Dick Cheney...well, no contest.

[gogipper]

Congratulations your one of the 33%!

The objection is to the violation of political tradition in spotlighting a family member.

[cubreporter]

And when I do my wife sits there like a bump on a log.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

It's so ironic that it is happening this way.

All of the horrible stuff about Kerry (his viciousness, his hypocracy, his smearing of all Vietnam veterans, his lies about his war record, his inactivity in the Senate, and on and on and on) have relatively little impact on most voters. One mean comment resonates with the public and, I hope, becomes the tipping point that causes large numbers of voters to break faith with their candidate.

Why didn't people get disgusted with him long ago? Is the public at fault? Is the media coverup so effective?

I'm completely perplexed at the randomness of all of this.

---

Me too, Piranha, me too.

All I can say is that it has probably been always been this way. Politics seems to be more art than science, and all the "pundits" and "prognosticators" are almost always wrong.

Only thing I can say is that here is some parallel to human relationships. Seems like we've all had experiences where some person reveals themselves in some unexpected way and we never feel the same way about them again. And oftentimes, what that other person is doing doesn't even make sense and probably couldn't explain why they did what they did.

I have the notion that politics is the same thing, just writ larger. Great observation.