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Changes at Augusta bother Jack, Arnie ('they ruined it' says Nicklaus)
SF Chronicle ^ | 2 March 06 | Ron Kroichick

Posted on 03/02/2006 5:08:12 PM PST by gobucks

In the golfing galaxy, the arrival of March means the Masters is near. The first shot soars into the air at Augusta National five weeks from today, bringing the annual avalanche of sights and sounds: Amen Corner, the azaleas, the pine trees ...

Jack and Arnie ripping the place?

First, some context: Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer did not engage in a foot-stomping, steam-spewing tirade. Nicklaus and Palmer sat calmly in oversized leather chairs at a recent Golf Digest event and criticized the course changes made by Augusta National Chairman Hootie Johnson.

This is not standard behavior for former Masters champions, who seldom go public with negative thoughts about Augusta National.

"I still like the course, but I think they've ruined it from a tournament standpoint," Nicklaus said. "Augusta is a big, big part of my life, and I love it. That's why I hate to see them change it."

Said Palmer: "I love the place ... but now, I'm not so sure. There are some things that are taking the realistic Augusta away. It's changed dramatically from the course I've known the last 50 years."

Johnson engineered changes on six holes last summer, lengthening the course by 155 yards (to 7,445) and adding trees and bigger, deeper bunkers. Nicklaus and Palmer apparently are most unhappy about the narrowing of some holes; Nicklaus suggested the changes destroy Bobby Jones' original vision of giving players latitude off the tee, so they can choose different angles into Augusta's famously slick greens.

Nicklaus and Palmer, with 10 Augusta titles between them, play prominent roles in the history of the Masters, and history is a huge part of the tournament's appeal. So when Nicklaus bluntly says Augusta National officials have "ruined" the course, it's worth considering.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: augusta; golf; sports
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To: an amused spectator
As Jack has suggested on numerous occasions, de-juicing the balls would solve the problem. No doubt about it - the balls are juiced.

What's interesting is this argument has been going on since 1848,and will probably continue as long as this "Greatest Game" is played.

41 posted on 03/03/2006 3:46:12 PM PST by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: mdittmar
Yes, the argument will continue. :-)

However, I've been playing for 30 years. I carry two or three different brands in my bag. Two of them give me ten-fifteen more yards than the other, which gives me more feel. And they're all legal brands.

Go figure.

42 posted on 03/03/2006 4:05:25 PM PST by an amused spectator (Bush Runner! The Donkey is after you! Bush Runner! When he catches you, you're through!)
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To: an amused spectator
I'm surprised a low rent person such as yourself could come up with a whole quarter. Why not donate it to a$$hole anonymous in your name!
43 posted on 03/03/2006 4:12:13 PM PST by geezerwheezer (get up boys, we're burnin' daylight!!!)
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To: wireman
I know it sounds incredible, but a 225 yard carry is just a solid 5-iron for Phil Mickelson and Vijay Singh. I'm a 49 year-old amateur and with the Titleist Pro-V1 ball I can hit a solid 3-iron about 225 yards in the air. To challenge the top players in the game today and make most of them hit a long iron, a par-3 has to be at least 240 yards.

There really wasn't much change in the distance that golf balls flew until just recently. Mostly the golf balls were redesigned to fly straighter until about 3 years ago when the Pro-V1 took distance to a new level. I just tried the Bridgestone B330 (that Couples uses) and that ball seems to be about as long as the Pro-V1.

44 posted on 03/03/2006 4:19:09 PM PST by defenderSD (¤¤ Wishing, hoping, and praying that Saddam will not nuke us is not a national security policy.)
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To: an amused spectator
I carry two or three different brands in my bag

That would make me shoot 110;)

I have to have only one brand in my bag,although I change brands about twice a year,I must have the same ball marker and divot repair tool,along with a white 2 3/8" tee,not natural or orange or freebie logo tee,in my right front pocket,nothing else can be in any other pocket,then I'm ready to play.

Man I love this game.

One of my favorite golf quotes is by Jeff Sluman,
I hate this game,and I can't wait till tomorrow to play it again

45 posted on 03/03/2006 4:34:28 PM PST by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: geezerwheezer

Take your juvenile rant and small mind back to your bathroom. Enjoy, adults will look the other way.


46 posted on 03/03/2006 4:39:51 PM PST by Ender@Game.now
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To: geezerwheezer
Nicholas may well be a great course designer

I have played several of Jack's and Arnie's courses. To be honest, they sucked.

47 posted on 03/03/2006 5:36:51 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: defenderSD

The reason that ball technology has exploded recently and thus the distance is that the USGA still uses the standard from 1976! Including the club used for testing ball velocity. A wood driver!


48 posted on 03/03/2006 5:44:33 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: mdittmar; an amused spectator
I carry two or three different brands in my bag

A violation of the rules and grounds for DQ as soon as a stroke is played with a different ball than you teed off with.

Meaning, if you start your round with a Titlest DT 1, every shot must be played with a Titlest DT 1. Playing a Titlest DT 2, or another brand is illegal.

Not that it matters in your friendly foursome.

49 posted on 03/03/2006 5:46:11 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: geezerwheezer
no class and never had any.

Sorry, you're projecting again...
50 posted on 03/03/2006 5:47:42 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: Phantom Lord

Yeah, the club used for testing makes a big differences. It seems like the Pro-V1 is a little longer than other balls with a driver, but you really pick up a lot of distance with irons and fairway woods which put much more spin on the ball. The Pro-V1 seems to generate more lift and less drag from backspin and it just hangs in the air and carries much farther on shots you hit hard with high spin rates. The USGA might need to start testing with a metal driver and add some tests with a 3-wood, 5-iron and 8-iron to get some control over golf ball aerodynamics. I'm not complaining though; it's fun to hit 170-yard 7-irons. When I was a high school player that was a 5-iron for me.


51 posted on 03/03/2006 5:56:11 PM PST by defenderSD (¤¤ Wishing, hoping, and praying that Saddam will not nuke us is not a national security policy.)
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To: Phantom Lord
Not that it matters in your friendly foursome.

But I bring it up to my golf buddy,just to screw with him;)

I know the rules, and he knows I know,he asks me about certain situations,we have called penalties on ourselves,the most honest guy I know.

"Are we going to play golf,or some other game".

52 posted on 03/03/2006 6:04:27 PM PST by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: mdittmar
Next time he asks for advise DQ him and take his money. Not allowed.

Keep messing with him!

Knowing the rules is a great way to mess with people. Especially when you do something to improve your lie, they object, and you point out the rule that allows it!

53 posted on 03/03/2006 6:14:12 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: defenderSD
The yardage and the challenge aren't really related. I'm 52, a 10 handicap, and I can still fly a 3 iron 215-220 (it's not always straight). The point is, it's not the golfers, it's the gear. The USGA/R&A think nothing about regulating C.O.R. or driver head size. It's time to establish standards for tournament balls.

Let the amateurs use whatever they want. Don't render many of the classic older courses (Merion East for one) useless by virtue of technology. All they do now is bomb it as far as they can into the rough. What percentage of fairways do Woods or Mickelson hit compared to Nicklaus or Player?

54 posted on 03/03/2006 6:15:13 PM PST by wireman
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To: Phantom Lord
Meaning, if you start your round with a Titlest DT 1, every shot must be played with a Titlest DT 1. Playing a Titlest DT 2, or another brand is illegal.I think that only applies hole-to-hole.
55 posted on 03/03/2006 6:21:58 PM PST by HIDEK6
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To: Phantom Lord
Next time he asks for advise DQ him and take his money. Not allowed.

We don't play much match play,I pulled it on him before,he knows that one now.

56 posted on 03/03/2006 6:38:49 PM PST by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: Phantom Lord
A good refresher for us both,
Rule 8.1 Advice;Penalty for breach of rule
Match Play-Loss of hole
Stroke Play-Two strokes
57 posted on 03/03/2006 7:13:42 PM PST by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: HIDEK6

Not so. The same ball must be played the entire round.


58 posted on 03/03/2006 7:15:59 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: wireman
The par three fourth hole is now 240 yards. You have to carry 225 to get over the bunker in front. Ridiculous.

Those are obviously the tournament tees. What do the pros hit 240 yards? 5 Iron?

The blues and whites are probably 50 to 60 yards shorter.

59 posted on 03/03/2006 7:19:22 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Texas Eagle; wireman
While a 240 par 3 is long by any definition, its not like 15 years ago where players would have had to hit a wood and a 2 or 3 iron only for the longest players.

Its a strong mid iron for 90%+ of the guys who will be playing.

And any par 3 under 200 is an easy hole for them. And any par 3 under 180 (excepting Sawgrass 17th) is a calk walk.

60 posted on 03/03/2006 7:36:45 PM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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