Silent Nuclear Submarines Add to Iran Tensions

News Max ^ | April 13, 2006 | Dave Eberhart,

[esryle]

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The silent submarine forces of the United States, Israel and Iran are all ramping up for a hot war, adding yet more tension to an already volatile Middle East -- made all the more uneasy by Iran's relentless march to become a nuclear power.

Leading off the always lurking and deadly wolfpacks is Israel's fleet of Dolphin-class submarines, each carrying U.S.-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles -- armed with nuclear warheads.

The Israel submarines can remain at sea for a month and are equipped with six torpedo tubes appropriate for conventional torpedoes. The tubes can also be used to launch the nuclear-tipped cruise missiles -- missiles that could reach some of the targeted sites in Iran critical to its nuclear development.

Starting with just three of these Dolphin-class undersea intruders, the Israeli inventory quickly went to a fourth and a fifth. And there are reportedly at least a half-dozen in the pipeline -- two being built by the People's Republic of China.

Although most particulars of Iran's military assets -- both personnel and hardware -- is closely held by that country, military experts opine that Iran has up to six Russian-built SSK or SSI Kilo-class diesel submarines prowling the Gulf.

Most recently, Iran's armed forces added to this fleet by deploying a new locally built submarine in Persian Gulf waters, state television reported.

The vessel was christened the Nahang, meaning whale. Built by the Iranian Defense Ministry, the sub has the capability "to carry multipurpose weapons for different missions," according to Iranian Rear Adm. Sajjad Kouchaki.

"The submarine is fully adapted to the Persian Gulf," he said, adding that the Iranian navy is pursuing a policy of deterrence in the strategic waters.

Perhaps even more significant, is the recent Iranian deployment of a super high-speed torpedo. The new torpedo was reportedly successfully tested last month during war games that Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards held in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea.

State news sources touted the successfully test-firing of the new torpedo, called the "Hoot." The development ups the profile of Iran's power in the Gulf, where the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet is based to, among other things, safeguard the flow of oil.

Gen. Ali Fadavi, deputy head of the Revolutionary Guards' navy, said that the torpedo, speeding at 223 miles per hour, was too fast to elude.

"It has a very powerful warhead designed to hit big submarines," Fadavi told state television.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration recently announced plans to add conventional ballistic missiles to the armory of its nuclear Trident submarines –- adding yet another potential arm to any military option considered against Iran, if diplomacy and/or sanctions fail to persuade that country to give up its nuclear designs.

According to Defense Daily last January, four ultra-stealthy Ohio-class Strategic Nuclear Submarines, or SSBNs, were having their 24 Trident II D-5 nuclear ballistic missiles removed and replaced with up to 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles.

[biggerten]

The conversion of the Ohio's from Trident nuclear missles to conventional cruise missles is due to treaty obligations between the US and Russia. It has nothing to do with the current tensions (although they COULD be useful, if the conversions are complete).

[judicial meanz]

Can a submarine travel the length of the Suez Canal and not be detected?

I would sincerely doubt it. The locks woud sincerely mess up their day, and I doubt it is deep enough for a boat to dive in the canal.

[MortMan]

Gen. Ali Fadavi, deputy head of the Revolutionary Guards' navy, said that the torpedo, speeding at 223 miles per hour, was too fast to elude.

Pardon this landlubber-Air Defense warrior's ignorance, but is 223 mph a reasonable number in this context?

Thanks in advance.

[judicial meanz]

The weapon in question is a variant of the Russian Squall torpedo.

It uses a rocket type propulsor coupled with an air bubble around the body of the torpedo to allow it to make the 223 knots they claim. It has a 7500 yard range and cannot turn from it's launch bearing.

One shot wonder.

The Squall has one kill to its credit: the Kursk.

[Tatze]

...the torpedo, speeding at 223 miles per hour, was too fast to elude.

I'm no naval expert, but 223 miles per hour seems to be a dubious claim, to say the least. Any Freepers know/think if this could be possible?

With a little research, I found that average torpedo speeds are 30 knots. but the water speed record for a boat is 220.493 mph. Is 223 mph for a torpedo even possible?

[dartuser]

Yeah, seems excessive for a torpedo.

[rattrap]

Google "Supercavitation", it's very possible.

[judicial meanz]

While it may be possible that Iran has some decent technology, I wonder how capable their crews are, and how adequately they can be deployed.

On a side note, some of the Iranian Navy personnel who have been in the Navy for a few years may have been trained by US Submariners in the mid-late 1970's when we had a lend lease program with the former Shah.

I remember quite a few of them in New London going to sub school in those days.

[ops33]

Why would a submarine want to be submerged in the Suez Canal? How deep is the canal?

[Edgerunner]

Attack boats normally spend most of their time gathering sonic data about enemy subs and ships. Kilos are quiet, but they still make a racket due to the hull construction. The Russians have a saying: If you want to find an American sub, look for a hole in the water. We would also have a Seawolf in the area. This boat is VERY hard to hear and is enough to take out Iran's entire navy...

[TheGunny]

Harpoon cruise missiles -- armed with nuclear warheads

Stooped reading right there, the Harpoon doesn't carry Nuke warheads.

[rattrap]

I don't think it would want to travel it when it can just sit at one end and fire wake-homing torpedos at whatever passes. The Kilo is not really an ASW weapon, it's a ship killer.

I was just answering your question theoretically.

I was just looking around for a depth chart of the Suez but haven't had any luck yet.

[judicial meanz]

Bubblehead ping!

Apologies to anyone I left out.

[mortal19440]

Especially deadly at choke points like the Straits leading into the Gulf.

[mkjessup]

On a side note, some of the Iranian Navy personnel who have been in the Navy for a few years may have been trained by US Submariners in the mid-late 1970's when we had a lend lease program with the former Shah.

I recall hearing a story (true or not, don't know) that there had been some interest by the Shah in acquiring at least two or three of the old George Washington class SSBN subs, and even as good a friend as the Shah was, he was diplomatically turned down.

I can only imagine what might have happened otherwise, after the Assahollah seized power.

[phasma proeliator]

The main channels of the canal are dredged to a depth of about 66 feet (20 meters), and the navigational width between buoys is set at 596 feet (180 meters). Double channels, where ships traveling in opposite directions can pass without stopping, have been constructed at four locations and cover a little more than 41 miles (67 kilometers). The largest ships allowed to pass through the canal may have a beam of up to 210 feet (64 meters) wide and a draught (below-water depth) of up to 53 feet (16 meters).

[judicial meanz]

When I was in New London, there were several old diesel boats that the USN had transferred to the Iranian navy, and several crews in training from Iran.

When the Shah fell, the US confiscated the boats, and the crews disappeared overnight. Some went home, and some went AWOL in fear for their lives.

The USN literally secured the boats to the pier, and they sat there for years until they were disposed.

[rattrap]

Thanks!

Kilo is roughly 13m tall so I guess it could submerge but it would fit like Rosie O' Donnel in lycra shorts.

[Irishguy]

well with all of the subs in the area...sure is going to get crowded pretty soon...

the iranians have one thing they can do , which is fire at anything they hear...

they either hit israeli, us, brit subd or one of their own and blame us...

either way they win...

still being in a iranian sub sure must have a t-55 tank feel to it during the ground war in iraq


dont they use satellites to spot in relatively shallow waters also..? as i recall the water is not too deep there...

[SmithL]

I was onboard a Boomer when Carter let the Iranian Act-of-War against the USA go unanswered. If he'd dealt with it then, we wouldn't need this discussion now.