Posted on 01/29/2016 5:00:11 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Don't choose your candidate based on who you'd prefer to have a beer with, but whom you trust most to remain aligned with your principles. For me, that's Ted Cruz.
Earlier in the primary season, when the frontrunners were just beginning to emerge, I expressed concern that Cruz was untrustworthy. It wasn't just my vaguely bitter recollection of Cruz's actions in the government shutdown fiasco, but something about his personality--the inflection of his voice, the way he too often lowered it to a whisper, the way he paced back and forth across the stage like a fired-up Baptist preacher going off his sermon notes, except I knew that he carefully chose every talking point, every word.
Although I knew Cruz has one of the highest-rated conservative records in the race (98 percent lifetime average from the Heritage Foundation), I was convinced he'd be unable to build the necessary coalitions to "get things done," much less win the election, because he wasn't a team player. Not only that, I thought I couldn't trust him.
Cruz Is Unlikable, But Principled
My beliefs about Cruz' methods and personality began to change after reading two articles. The first was from National Review editor Rich Lowry, who contended that Cruz was being compared to the wrong twentieth-century presidential candidate. Lowry says Cruz isn't destined to lose in a landslide like Goldwater, but that he is much more like Richard Nixon, minus the paranoia, plus a more heavily defined ideology.
The two are similar in personality: "Cruz is cut from roughly similar cloth. He wears his ambition on his sleeve and isn't highly charismatic or relatable. In high school, he could've been voted most likely to be seen walking on the beach in his dress shoes....
(Excerpt) Read more at thefederalist.com ...
“He was an American citizen and a Texan, and that’s all they cared about.”
You don’t know that. I know of many Texans who said they would not have voted for him if they had known he failed to disclose his foreign citizenship.
I can accept the proposition Ted Cruz is a lawful and naturalized U.S. citizen, let us assume he may not be a lawful U.S. citizen for the sake of securing evidence of his U.S. citizenship by a preponderance of the evidence in the form of primary documents.
1. Where is the CRBA for Ted Cruz?
2. What documents evidence is there to demonstrate Eleanor did not acquire British citizenship while she was residing in the United Kingdom of Great Britain with Mr. Wilson or the unidentified father of her child?
3. What documentation is there to demonstrate Eleanor did not acquire Canadian citizenship while she was a Permanent Resident of Canada when Ted Cruz was born?
Even when we assume Eleanor was only a U.S. citizen at all times, it does nothing to change the fact Ted Cruz was a naturalized U.S. citizen as evidenced by the laws previously cited.
My wife is a naturalized U.S. citizen. She was born in Poland to Polish parents. She had a naturalization ceremony. I went to it. I am not aware of any naturalization ceremony for Ted Cruz. My understanding is that generally, people are born U.S. citizens if they are born in the United States or if they are born abroad to U.S. citizens.
Nevertheless, you would have to cite some precedential court opinion to convince me that Cruz is a naturalized U.S. citizen, as opposed to a citizen by birth.
Cordially,
If a Naturalization Act makes you a citizen, you are by definition, a naturalized citizen. Ted Cruz is a naturalized citizen, not a natural born citizen.
You only have to read the title of the article to understand that your post is rebutted in the article, right? Don’t read it though.
Thank you for your relevant cites.
I have been reading up on this a bit on and off (especially during the Obama period) but you have sparked me to do a little more research.
I think the main difference we have is that I believe that there are two categories of citizenship, natural-born and naturalized; and you believe there are three, natural born, eligible for naturalization at birth, and naturalization.
In an earlier response to another poster I cited the Naturalization Act of 1790, “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States”.
Now, that act is no longer in force, but it DOES use the term “natural born Citizens”. This tells me the Founding Fathers themselves anticipated statutory law as encompassing a positive legal definition of “Natural Borm Citizen”, subject to revision. I believe that future statutes such as the 1952 law you cited covers the same ground, and that “citizens at birth” is the same as “Natural Born Citizen” because of this.
Your second cite includes “Automatic acquisition of U.S. citizenship after birth, a form of naturalization by certain children born abroad to U.S. citizen parents or children adopted abroad by U.S. citizen parents.” Now, this was is of interest to me, because my wife is Canadian and our children are American born and adopted. Ted Cruz was not adopted, bt the law as written was trying to encompass every category elgible. Just because one is eligible to acquire “naturalization” doesn’t mean it is necessary, or that the person wasn’t already a citizen.
As the Canadian law is written, my adoptive children actually are dual citizens, even though Canada doesn’t know it yet. (They are not natral born, as the law was passed after their birth, and the birth parents were not Canadian). But, if my wife bore a child stateside, he would be a dual citizen at birth. The U.S. has no jurisdiction over what rules other countries make for citizenship.
Your last quotation is from the oft cited Von Ark case, which had to do with the inverse, foreign national giving birth on U.S. soil. The statement “A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized....” is more in the explanatory portion of the document and is at best a dictum, and not binding.
That said, I believe you have made a case against Cruz’ Natural Born status. I don’t believe that him NOT being a Natural Born Citizen is a “fact”, based on law and the history of this country.
I wouldn’t mind Mr. Trump or anyone else who has standing to get a hearing onthis, and get it cleared up permanently. I am confident it would bo the right way. Grayson would be a fantastic plaintiff.
Yes he would. I would like a Cruz/Gilmore presidency but I am an idealist.
I think DT will be president because Americans are marketing sheep.
Agree
The swarmyness from Ted is appalling. Nobody in Congress will want to work with him.
He’ll be a 1 term President who isn’t able to get a thing done.
Yup, I missed the “leave the stage” joke. He should learn to laugh after one of his own jokes. I have to do that or no one gets my jokes until they know me for a long while.
CNN clips? bwahahaha, exactly why trump will win and become the greatest crony capitalist president EVER. Taking anything out of context is false. Take the time and watch. Be a good Freeper. I’m going to watch DT’s show today and see if he said anything new. I’m also going to watch all the old debates again.
I like Cruz and will vote for him, but by the time primaries happen in Oregon, other Americans have already chosen the candidate. Liked Trump too until he said, hopefully in jest, that his followers will still vote for him even if he shoots someone in a NY street. Lost me there, for sure, don’t like him, not offended just don’t want to be counted as a follower that overlooks everything negative in Trump.
You are really dense, Cruz is a naturalized citizen. A Naturalization Act conferred citizenship on Cruz. If a Naturalization Act confers your citizenship you are not a natural born citizen. This is not rocket science. No legislation confers citizenship to a natural born citizen. Here is a question for you. My parents were US citizens I was born in the USA, what law makes me a citizen?
“My wife is a naturalized U.S. citizen. She was born in Poland to Polish parents. She had a naturalization ceremony. I went to it.”
Yes, and that is the immigration and naturalization procedure for the naturalization after birth of foreign born citizens. The administrative procedures are described in the U.S. State Department Foreign Affairs Manual.
“I am not aware of any naturalization ceremony for Ted Cruz.”
The naturalization of a child born abroad with a U.S. citizen parent is described by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952 by which Ted Cruz was authorized to acquire U.S. citizenship as “Nationality at Birth and by Collective Naturalization”, meaning such a child is automatically and collectively naturalized by the authority of the statute, provided certain other provisions of the immigration and naturalization act are complied with. It is generally required for a parent to obtain a U.S. State Department Consular Report of a Birth Abroad (CRBA) for the child to gain admittance to the United States. There are circumstances by which parents have brought their Canadian born child into the United States without doing so, and they were typically still able to acquire U.S. citizenship for this foreing born child of a U.S. citizen.
“My understanding is that generally, people are born U.S. citizens if they are born in the United States or if they are born abroad to U.S. citizens.”
Yes, they are born as citizens, but only in a little more than just the last century or so. Previously, there were many periods of time in which no child born abroad with a U.S. citizen parent or two U.S. citizen parents acquired any form of U.S. citizenship. Afterwards, the citizenship acquired could only be naturalized citizenship as stated by several Supreme Court of the United States decisions, including the United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) decision quoted below.
“Nevertheless, you would have to cite some precedential court opinion to convince me that Cruz is a naturalized U.S. citizen, as opposed to a citizen by birth.”
Note, Ted Cruz is a naturalized citizen “at birth” and not a natural born citizen “by birth”, or what Sir Edward Coke in Calvin’s Case 1608 described as a form of naturalization or subject-made (datus) at birth versus a natural born subject or subject-born by birth (natus). Also observe Ted Cruz acquired U.S. citizenship by grant from the authority of manmade statutory law and not with natural law bestowing the citizenship by birth in nature and under natural law. Technically, the child born abroad acquires allegiance to the foreign sovereign by birth in the sovereign’s domain and jurisdiction, making the child an alien with respect to the father’s sovereign. The father’s sovereign, having provided a manmade and therefore artificial law and legal fiction for the naturalization of a child born abroad and outside the domains, jurisdiction, and allegiance of the father’s sovereign, requires by force of law the child be “considered as” or accepted as if the child was entitled to some but not all of the same rights and powers as if the child had been an actual natural born child within the sovereign’s domains, jurisdiction, and allegiance. See:
[Quote]
66 Stat. Public Law 414 - June 27, 1952. TITLE III - NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION. Chapter 1 - Nationality at Birth and by Collective Naturalization. NATIONALS AND CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AT BIRTH. Sec. 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth; . . . (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at lest five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States by such citizen parent may be included in computing the physical presence requirements of this paragraph.
[Unquote]
Note this law naturalizes a child born abroad with a parent who is a U.S. citizen, so such a child and Ted Cruz are naturalized U.S. citizens by the authority of this law.
The U.S. State Department Foreign Affairs Manual acknowledges that immigration and naturalization law and says such a child and Ted Cruz were born abroad and naturalized as U.S. citizens.
[Quote]
U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 7
Consular Affairs. 7 FAM 1151 INTRODUCTION... b. 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(23); INA 101(a)(23)) defines naturalization as the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth by any means whatsoever. . . For the purposes of this subchapter naturalization includes:... (5) “Automatic†acquisition of U.S. citizenship after birth, a form of naturalization by certain children born abroad to U.S. citizen parents or children adopted abroad by U.S. citizen parents.
[Unquote]
[The Supreme Court of the United States also decided a child born abroad such as Ted Cruz can only “become a citizen by being naturalized.â€
[Quote]
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 18 S.Ct. 456, 42 L.Ed. said “A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized....”
[Unquote]
I’m not writing him off but he is behind by a lot
And I do like him in fact I preferred him till Trump came along
I prefer Trump by maybe 15-20 basis points
I like the brashness and non apologies and record of success and can do
I like Cruz ideology but he’s got the politician tone and its just hard to figure his personality
I don’t think anyone in America doesn’t understand Trump personality which some hate but many enjoy his candor and spunk
I have written before that the Natural Born Citizen meme is one that need to be settled.
I am afraid that the left is using on long game - so down the road they can claim it is settled law- where have we heard that before.
Then they can run an anchor baby or maybe someone else that is politically aligned like the present _resident.
I also believe that Cruz is playing into the lefts game - if he was truly conservative would not the correct course be to withdraw and file suit with Supremes court to settle question.
But agian I am not a lawyer- just a student of history- socialists always have a short game and a long game. Sometimes bears scrutiny as to which game is being played and who are the players.
The worst problem that conservatives have is that we only look to the next election- instead we need to be planning out 20 or 50 years and instilling the next generation to be involved.
Hope for the best - plan for the worst
By that same token Iowa often chooses the evangelical pick which is not a harbinger much recently
New Hampshire choice however is important
And Trump is way out front
The fact Trump draws crowds in Iowa that he does and most polls now show him ahead at least indicates he has some Mighty Mo there
I don’t buy the logic that if his crowds are 5-10 times those of his opponents that he won’t caucus good on a cold winter nite as well because of party seriousness or groundwork and all that
A high caucus turnout which this is shaping up to be indicates Trump has fans in Iowa
If I’m wrong
Whip me
Beat me
And make me write bad checks
“66 Stat. Public Law 414 - June 27, 1952. TITLE III - NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION. Chapter 1 - Nationality at Birth and by Collective Naturalization. NATIONALS AND CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AT BIRTH. Sec. 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth; . . . (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at lest five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: “
On what you sent, Can you please interpret this as to Ted’s situation?
John Adams never won any congeniality awards either.
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