To the best of my knowledge, none of them have demonstrated any special knowledge that they know for a fact that there is nothing else going on. Lacking a demonstrably comprehensive grasp on all there is to know, the only thing left for these people is faith. They just simply believe the news stories, and unless they are told something different by govt propaganda outlets, their thinking stops.
If someone tries to assemble the observable facts, and tries to draw inferences from them, that might likely point to other causes behind the 9/11/01 tragedy, the list of posters below dismiss the excercise of such deductive reasoning, reasoning based upon history, and facts at hand, automatically. Obviously, they take it on faith that there is no possibility whatsoever that this horrible tragedy is just another piece to a growing and concluding puzzle of design, by people whose existence they cannot comprehend or understand, to shape the world into their image.
What amazes me is how people who really know very little about these matters can be so sure of themselves they got it right. Instead of probing, searching, asking questions, making new assumptions, and even going a little extra out of their way to excercise a little more common sense than usual, they shut off from their minds that which conflicts with what they believe. I can say one thing for sure -- nobody that posts on this site knows for sure what the h* is going on. But when we examine the effect of the tragedy, who gains, and who loses, in the context of 20th century economic and political history, as well as the very recent one that immediately preceeded this tragedy, I wonder how credible it is to instantly dismiss every thought, or notion, that this type of event is being at least capitalized on, if not altogether designed, by the primary beneficiaries of it after the fact?
Ultimately, the central purpose of the author's argument in post 1 is that if the USA is to be truly free, secure, and prosperous, it must disengage from anyone, and/or any government, and/or any foriegn entanglement that fits the above description. There are practical, legislative steps we can take as We The People to remove the curse over the USA. But if we bury our heads in the sand, and stick our fingers in our ears, refusing to even consider the possibility that very powerful people in the world are jerking the USA around, and that we'd be much better off without them doing so, what hope does the USA have going forward? None, as far as I can tell.
So for future reference, for all thinking people on this site, here is a partial list of ear pluggers who do not want to hear what you have to say. And if they are successful, they will have your thoughts banished from this site. Considering I have not seen them demonstrate any special talent in terms of analysis, or proferring an opinion, or making an expert, detailed opinion that proves conclusively that all parts of our author's argument have no basis of fact, I think it is fair to say that unless these posters can actually do so, for them to dismiss out of hand the premise we find alluded to in the above, ultimately, these posters lack credibility.
sinkspur
Hillary's Lovely Legs
dighton
Darth Reagan
Raging Against the machine
Impeach the Boy
Seeking the truth
tuesday afternoon
r9etb
F-117A
PSYCHO-FREEP
Poohbah
hflynn
KirkandBurke
Seeking the truth
Dataman
dighton
dubyaismypresident
Roebucks
headsonpikes
dead
Trident/Delta
_Jim
Patriot76
Alas Babylon!
Billthedrill
one_particular_harbour
Redleg Duke
Josiah6
roughrider
knews_hound
Ole Okie
mangomooli
The posters below have demonstrated they are receptive to thoughts and ideas that could lead them to a better understanding of what is going on:
freedomnews
It'salmosttolate
lavaroise
Aerial
DAGO
jamesbond
zadok
AMMON-CENTRIST
spoosman
Woodkirk
Dixielander
Political Junkie Too
Just on this thread alone, the numbers breakdown this way: 31 against any consideration of any thought or idea that is not repeated by the network news ten times a day and 12 that are hungry for the truth, and want to do something about it.
In percentage terms, that is 72% that are spoon fed and digest easily govt/media propaganda, and 28% who do not. And this is on a web site that has as its original stated purpose to see America restored to its original, constitutional foundation. Considering how that constitution has been so bastardized over the years, and what has happened to our country as a result, I think that is a great objective. But unless the 72/28 ratio gets flipped around, we'll not likely see Mssr. Robinson's goal achieved in our lifetimes. We'll end up being specatators of the nation's demise, and we'll watch it on TV, having ended up doing little or nothing to stop it, because the 72 refused to consider who the real enemies are, what their tactics are, and thus did not develop a gameplan for true American renewal and revival.
Of course, I already have talked about this long before the recent round of poop hit the fan. I just did not think the creeps would stoop as low as they have. I underestimated the determination they have to get their NWO moving forward, apparently at an accelerated rate.
The views expressed on this thread only help the process of getting the the truth. I have never stated at anytime in the past I have all the answers, but when I start reading comments like the above, and place them into the context of banished thought they only tend to strengthen the hypothesis, and not weaken it. I would like to get more names, and faces. But that will come in due course. If the 72/28 ratio starts to invert, then we might just get to the bottom of this mess, and chart a better course for the USA.
Lastly, I am happy to find myself in the 28. In my business, I have found that the crowd is usually wrong at critical junctures. We are at such a juncture, and things being the way they are, knowing that the odds of any of the 72 ever changing their disposition towards seeking, or desiring the truth (the 72 fairly, imo, representing the greater population in the USA), I think we can expect things to simply get far worse. If the twin towers collapsing into dust doesn't wake people up, I wonder what will?
31 against any consideration of any thought or idea that is not repeated by the network news ten times a day and 12 that are hungry for the truth, and want to do something about it. In percentage terms, that is 72% that are spoon fed and digest easily govt/media propaganda, and 28% who do not
Great debating technique. “Those who agree with me hunger for the truth those who don’t are idiots.”
Dude, I’m sorry that I don’t share your David Rockefeller is the all-powerful anti-Christ worldview.
And I’m still waiting for some verifiable proof of your dopey Kissinger quote. Let me guess, the Queen of England ate it.
To: ratcat Here it is:
To: flamefront
Byron pulls the usual leftist spin: One of Bush’s original partners in his oil company - which initially bore the name Arbusto Corp. — had been a fellow named James Bath.
James Bath was up to his eyeballs in the S&L shakedown.
BATH, JAMES: Houston airplane company owner; CIA asset; associated with Reza Pahlavi, son of the late Shah of Iran; business partner of LAN BENTSEN, son of former Texas Senator LLOYD BENTSEN; business partner of GEORGE W. BUSH; borrowed from looted LAMAR SAVINGS and MAINLAND SAVINGS.
More on Bath from THE MAFIA, THE CIA, AND GEORGE BUSH by Pete Brewton, concerning the S&L scandal:
BATH was born in 1936 in Natchitoches, Louisiana. He joined the Air Force, where he was a fighter pilot for five years. His service included three years stationed ay Richards-Gebaur Air Force Base south of Kansas City. When he left the Air Force, BATH moved to Houston, Texas, where he immediately began flying almost full time for the Air National Guard. While in the Air National Guard, BATH met GEORGE W. BUSH, and they became good friends. BATH also met LLOYD BENTSEN III, a son of the Democratic Senator from Texas while serving in the Air Guard.
After the Air Guard, BATH sold aircraft for BROWN AERO CORPORATION in Houston for three years, then took a position with ATLANTIC AVIATION CORPORATION to help open a Houston office for them. ATLANTIC AVIATION is headquartered in Wilmington, Delaware, and is reportedly the largest business-aircraft sales and service company in the world. It is owned by EDWARD DUPONT, the richest of the DUPONT family, active in Republican Party politics in Delaware and cousin of PIERRE ("PETE") DUPONT, former Delaware Governor. RICHARD C. DUPONT was on the board of ATLANTIC AVIATION and also owned the CIA-connected SUMMIT AVIATION.
While working with ATLANTIC AVIATION, BATH negotiated a distribution deal with ISRAEL AIRCRAFT INDUSTRIES (IAI), founded by ADOLF SCHWIMMER, and American-born Israeli arms dealer and special advisor to Israeli Prime Minister SHIMON PERES. SCHWIMMER and YAACOV NIMRODI, former Israeli Defense Attache to Tehran), ADNAN KHASHOGGI and others began devising ways to gain release of hostages being held in Lebanon and open dialogue with Iran. Through this group came the TOW missile shipments in the Fall of 1985.
In 1973, BATH quit ATLANTIC AVIATION, forming BATH/BENTSEN interests with LLOYD ("LAN") BENTSEN III. BATH/BENTSEN developed an apartment complex outside Houston, some airport hangars, and other real estate ventures. BENTSEN and BATH supposedly parted company in 1976, but BATH continued to use BATH/BENTSEN letterheads for correspondence up to 1990.
In 1976, BATH formed JIM BATH & ASSOCIATES, and was named trustee for SHEIKH SALEM BIN LADEN of Saudi Arabia, a member of the family that owns the largest construction company in the Middle East. BATH's job was to handle all of BIN LADEN's North American investments and operations. SALEM BIN LADEN is OSAMA BIN LADEN's half brother. SALEM BIN LADEN's father, MUHAMMED BIN LADEN, was a patient of the physician father of CIA-connected arms merchant ADNAN KHASHOGGI. MUHAMMED BIN LADEN got ADNAN KHASHOGGI involved in his first deal as a middle man. This was a truck sale that Khashoggi engineereed in the 1950s just as he returned from college in America. KHASHOGGI returned the $25,000 commission to MUHAMMED BIN LADEN, who returned it to KHASHOGGI.
Arab business started pouring into JIM BATH & ASSOCIATES. BATH became trustee for SHEIKH ABDULLAH BAROOM, the owner of a large Saudi cement and steel company. Then came the business of SHEIKH KHALID BIN MAHFOUTZ, the former CEO of National Commercial Bank, Saudi Arabia's biggest bank. SHEIKH KAHLID was CEO of National Commercial Bank until one week after he and HAROON KAHLOON were indicted in New York on charges they had schemed to defraud depositors, regulators, and auditors of the insolvent BANK OF CREDIT AND COMMERCE INTERNATIONAL (BCCI). The Federal Reserve Board than found that SHEIKH KAHLID had violated American banking laws in his attempt to acquire FIRST AMERICAN BANCSHARES, an affair that involved CLARK CLIFFORD) in concert with BCCI. SHEIKH KAHLID's assets in the United States were frozen.
CHARLES W. "BILL" WHITE, who graduated from the US NAVAL ACADEMY in the same class as OLIVER NORTH, became one of BATH's closest business associates. WHITE stated that BATH had told him that BATH was working for the CIA. BATH had been recruited in 1976 by GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH when BUSH was CIA Director. BATH's job was to monitor Arab investments in the United States.
That's all for now.
Am I wrong in believing that you accept its veracity?
By Daniel Hopsicker--Part 4
Questions mount about the precise nature of the conspiracy which took down the World Trade Center on Sept 11, even as the time for asking them grows urgently short.
Justice, vengeance, and our duty to our dead demand adherence to a simple progression.
Identify the bad guys who killed our people. Find the bad guys who killed our people. Kill them.
London England to Venice, Florida. Macro to micro. Tony Blair sketches out the Cliff notes version of the case against Bin Laden. He says, "Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization with ties to a global network."
"A global network."
What global network? A global network of what? Said global network assisted terrorist cadre. Said global network otherwise remains shadowy and undefined.
London England to Venice, Florida. Macro to micro. A massive flight training operation funnels hundreds of foreign national pilots here. Noise complaints heat up City Council meetings. Rudi Dekkers’ operation makes Big Noise. "During a period of two hours some 90 flights went over... 15 planes flying overhead six times each."
"Fifteen planes overhead."
A terrorist squadron. Bin Laden Air.
Three weeks later on the tarmac at the Venice Airport they are standing clear of Rudi Dekkers. Former associates plead ignorance. They are "no longer with the company."
More is learned about Rudi Dekkers. Rudi’s $500,000 yacht rocks at anchor in Naples, Florida. Rudi has Big Friends. Rudi has Big Problems. Rudi’s stock is Marked Down. Rudi’s story does not ‘cohere.’ Rudi’s friends are in High Places. Down on the tarmac Rudi is Mucho Unloved.
If the FBI is buying Rudi’s act, it isn’t because of his sterling reputation. "I tolerated Rudi's advances because I needed to keep my job," said former Dekkers’ employee Nicole Antini.
Two weeks before the World Trade Center attack she filed suit to force him to enforce the settlement of a sexual harassment charge. Dekkers agreed to settle for $15,000. Now he was balking at paying. "As long as I have worked at Huffman Aviation," Nicole said, "I have been subjected to sexual harassment by Rudi Dekkers."
Dekkers’ Venice Florida flight school was terrorist American beachhead. Huffman Aviation was terrorist Omaha Beach. The FBI pointedly said—early—they knew about terrorists rotating through Rudi Dekkers’ flight school in Venice, Florida. They leave hanging the question of why they did nothing to shut it down.
Dekkers’ waxes indignant. "I don't need anything from you, just a check to start flying."
Dekkers tells reporters how he happened to provide pilot training to the terrorist cadre:
"We're just a business."
Consider the (business) logic.
Two Dutch nationals, Arne Kruithof and Rudi Dekkers, buy two flight training schools at the ‘way-off-the-beaten-track’ Venice Florida airport in 1998.
Dekkers begins extensive "marketing" in Belgium and Germany. Atta live in Germany. Mohamed Atta and at least four of his terrorist cadre leave Germany. They move directly to Venice, Florida.
They do not pass "go." If they collect $200, it comes in useful, because now they are in pilot training with Dekkers and Kruithof. Pilot training is expensive.
Atta and Al-Shehhi pay $38,000 between them. Dekkers is training 500 foreign national pilots at two separate facilities.
Yet, out at the Venice Municipal Airport, Rudi is falling behind on his rent.
Right now there are people in Federal custody whose connections with the terrorists are far less suspicious. Both men are foreign nationals and thus presumed to be flight risks. Yet neither Dekkers nor Kruithof is being held.
Big Clout. Big Friends. Big Trouble. Big Charade.
"We're just a business."
What global network? A global network of what?
The birth of the ‘Lone (Nut) Cadre theory.
Dekkers’ and Kruithof’s importance grew this week when the Washington Post proposed the ‘Lone (Nut) Cadre’ theory, which is now, they report, the operative assumption in the FBI’s investigation.
"The 19 hijackers who carried out the worst act of terror ever to occur on U.S. soil worked with little outside help as a single, integrated group," said the Post in a Sunday report on the state of the investigation.
"Little outside help."
"As more of the conspiracy becomes understood, government sources now say that the investigation so far suggests the 19 had "no major help" in the United States," wrote Post reporter Amy Goldstein.
"No major help."
"The FBI investigation into the plot is preliminary, and the conspiracy's precise nature probably will not be understood for years."
If the conspiracy’s precise nature won’t be understood for years, how can they rule out domestic involvement?
A Federal Agency with a preference for lone (nut) gunmen floats a Lone (Nut) Cadre trial balloon.
Think 19 Lee Harvey Oswald’s.
Think squads of ‘lone gunmen.’
Atta’s cadre was a Lone Cadre. Doing Lone Cadre-like things. Acting, Always, Alone...at least while in this country. No one else involved. No Higher Ups.
Tony Blair’s global network explanation now obsolete. Replaced by Lone (Nut) Cadre theory.
Think FBI. Think Whitewater. Watergate. Kennedy.
Think ‘cover up.’
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
"We're just a business."
The Sarasota FBI office, responsible for the Venice airport investigation, has so far not offered their version of what Rudi Dekkers was up to.
Were Middle Eastern terrorists wandering the Florida Panhandle and Gulf Coast as comfortably as if they’d been listening to Tom Petty records all their lives?
Or is something else the case? Might Rudi Dekkers and Arne Kruithof work for the CIA? Might the CIA have been training Bin Laden operatives as part of an intelligence operation designed to try to penetrate his organization?
Might that explain FBI lack of interest in the two Venice Dutch Boys?
When commercial flights resumed at Venice Municipal Airport after the Sept 11 disaster the first plane to take off was an Air Sunshine flight, part of a fleet based in Fort Lauderdale. The only passenger was the pilot. There was little other activity at the airport. Members of the media outnumbered pilots or passengers in the lobby of Huffman Aviation, watching national broadcasts about the attacks.
Air Sunshine is owned by one Mirmohammed Adili, whose large family is involved in numerous aviation and import-export ventures. It is one of just two air carriers the American military lets fly into the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo, Cuba. Mirmohammed Adili's Air Sunshine is in Fort Lauderdale.
Just six months before they hijacked commercial planes and slammed them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, bin Laden operatives tried to buy a multi-million dollar Boeing 727.
They found a willing broker in... Fort Lauderdale. It is just coincidence. The Lone Cadre received "no major outside help."
Atta didn’t Keep A Diary. Instead, Atta Left A Will.
When it’s released experts read Atta as Saudi Wahhabi. A fundamentalist puritanical strain. No women at the funeral. No flowers. No wailing. No gnashing of terrorist teeth.
But Atta is Arab elite commando. Atta is Arab elite. Atta’s Father is Egyptian diplomat/lawyer. Elite make poor fundamentalists. Too much money to be made to spend time speaking in tongues. Rockefellers don’t handle snakes at Monday night revivals.
What induced Islamic terrorists to move to a retirement enclave with more golf carts than cars? It couldn't have been the nightlife.
But these terrorists--strange for devout Muslims, it seems-- dig lively nightlife. Devout Muslims abstain from alcohol. These Muslims order premium brands. These Muslims enjoy a night on the town as much as any Infidel.
Federal agents flash pictures at a South Florida bar of the two terrorist pilots who just a day earlier had demolished the World Trade Center. One of them drank Stolichnaya vodka for three straight hours, one bartender remembers.
"Muslim extremist" Marwan al-Shehhi was drinking rum.
Was Mohammed Atta a "devout Islamic fundamentalist?" Saudi puritanical or Stoli guy?
Mohammed Atta is Islamic Stolichnaya
48 hours after the slaying of John Fitzgerald Kennedy a CIA pilot named David Ferrie was under suspicion of participation in the assassination conspiracy. Thirty years later Joe Pesci plays Ferrie in Oliver Stone’s JFK the movie.
48 hours after the September 11th attack, a flight school owner named Rudi Dekkers, known to have trained virtually the entire terrorist pilot cadre, and a possible CIA asset, seemed impervious to suspicion. What suspicions? He was being booked onto Larry King Live.
The National Enquirer has the hot headline of the week:
"Terrorists Still in America."
"Where they are. What they’re doing. How you can spot them."
Do America a favor. Drop a copy at your local FBI.
Good. I'm happy to be included in your list of "ear pluggers," and would be most distressed otherwise.