BS or Refrigeration Breakthrough?

Kelix web site and Popular Science (1/2002) ^

[John Jamieson]

Servel Cycle AC was used in Texas when I was a kid. I think they're still around. They ran on natural gas heat.

[backhoe]

This it?

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My father ( who had an HVAC shop along with his main business, hazardous location wiring ) mentioned this type of cooler to me years & years ago... like about 45 years ago. They were popular at campsites and on small boats with no or tiny electrical systems.

[cyberaxe]

Scroll came out about 5 or 10 years ago.

The concept of compressing a gas by turning one involute form – or “scroll” – against another around a common axis is nearly a century old....source.....

.....Copeland refined it in 1987.....

[sit-rep]

I agree with you and do not understand the cooling end of the deal.

Gas is compressed then released through an orifice or simliar release mech. How can this work if the centrifuge is not spinning fast enough...or is it?

hmmmmmm...

SR

[Fzob]

It sounds suspiciously similar the the newer `scroll' compressors.

This device is definitely not a scroll compressor. This is like nothing I've seen in years of refrigeration work. A scroll is a sort of cross between a positive displacement and a very short screw. This is closer to a centrifugal compressor and I would suspect about as eff.

[sit-rep]

I am only familiar with the chilling systems they had in my engine room on board ship. A compressor compressed the gas. The gas is released and this is where you get a "cold" substance for heat transfer...so, how is this device compressing the gas enough to get this kind of release? I do not see it unless that centrifuge has a substantial head pressure, or it has a decent diameter...

could you explain this a bit?

SR

[JRandomFreeper]

That's them. They have a good catalog, but I find that the service leaves something to be desired. Maybe their pony-tails are too tight, or the mushrooms make them read the order wrong.

/john

[Fzob]

so, how is this device compressing the gas enough to get this kind of release?

Of course this is pure speculation on my part. But I would guess the coil part spins very fast. Notice there is a separate motor for the fan and coils. I would guess the coils spin in the area of at least 10 to 20 thousand RPM to build enogh head to compress the gas at typically air temps. The part that baffles me is that it appears the "compressor" part and the "evaporator" part seem to operate at the same speed, so the evaporator will "compress" the gas as well. So why would the gas not recompress after the throttling device. If this is true the eff would be very low.

As I said it's a very interesting machine. I would love to see the details.

[VOA]

In Oklahoma summer without air conditioning would be miserable for most.

Having lived most of my life in Oklahoma City, Stillwater, Norman, and
small-town Oklahoma...
I can honestly say the heat, humidity, and length of an Oklahoma summer can sufficiently
denature brain proteins to make you believe anything.

I don't know enough engineering/thermodymanics to judge this new-concept machine.
But if it brings down the cost of air-conditioning/refrigeration...I'm all for it!

[backhoe]

. The part that baffles me is that it appears the "compressor" part and the "evaporator" part seem to operate at the same speed, so the evaporator will "compress" the gas as well. So why would the gas not recompress after the throttling device

That's what was bothering me! I couldn't put a finger on it, but the symmetry of the coils on that rotor kept drawing my eye for some reason.... there has to be a differential between the two for it to pump.

I think you have a point about RPM, too, or else the diameter of the coils would have to be huge to get enough spin at the periphery.

[Down South P.E.]

They usually run off of "waste" heat. So you get "free" cooling. The draw back is that they are big and bulky and course there is that ammonia thing. Not real health stuff. But they do work well.

[Eric]

Going with the principle that an air conditioning unit removes heat, one side of this device is much warmer than the other side (one would hope). Also, notice in cut-away diagrams, that one side is wound one way, with a closed return though the center, and one is wound a different way. That creates a low pressure side and a high pressure side. Just follow the arrows in his diagram. Because of the nature of refrigerants it should work fine, and isn't a $6 Million dollar scam.

[JRandomFreeper]

Not too big and bulky anymore, and material technology and thermogodamics has advanced a LOT in the last century. No more fatal ammonia leaks. It's an old idea who's time has come.

/john

[Down South P.E.]

I haven't analyzed the system but in general - in the world of mechanical engineering - you don't get something for nothing. "Heat Pipes" have no moving parts at all and can produce conditioned air - just not very much. I would be curious to see the specifications on some of the systems - eg. operating pressures, speeds, power requirements, etc. The numbers will tell the story. Need some thermodynamic analysis here - how much are you getting - cooling thermal energy compared to how much you are spending to run it (energy you buy from the power company). Your refrigerators and air-conditioners have a label with a COP or coeffient of performance number on them. So what is the COP on this new invention?

[John Jamieson]

It was freelectricity.com that I was describing as a scam; I haven't made up my mind on this thing yet. Looks to me like it has revolve very fast to make high pressure. I too noticed that the fans were not on the main shaft, hum.

[sit-rep]

'preciate the response Fzob.

Familiar with centrifuge operations with Lube Oil Purification systems, I too guestimated 20,000 RPM + -. The Lube oil systems I worked on spun @ 20,000 to seperate the impurities in a 6 inch cylinder about 16" long.

The only way I can see this device working is if the centrifuge's collection "points" on the outer shell had a common port that the combined head pressure from all the points over came a single line back to center.

This is indeed interesting and if it works, I would like to see it.

Have a good one...

SR

[Carry_Okie]

Notice there is a separate motor for the fan and coils.

I don't think that is true. It does look interesting, but I would hate to have to align and balance it or it could be VERY noisy and short lived. Best that it have a pretty stiff structure. That raises issues of access, bearings, bubbles causing imbalances, all sorts of interesting questions. Curious though.

[cyberaxe]

No more fatal ammonia leaks

.....they all leak.....

.....some are just more dangerous than others.....

.....(course all will kill you).....

[John Jamieson]

Heat pipes only move heat from hot to cold, not the other way. They're like really good heat conductors.

[Down South P.E.]

It wasn't too long ago I saw in my ASHRAE Journal that Ice Storage was the going thing. Freeze and store big piles of ice in well insulated compartments for use in air-conditioning. I believe over in Sweden during the winter they store large quantities of snow in underground caverns and use that for air-conditioning during the summer.