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To: RobbyS,Viva La Homeschool,Romulus, Askel5
A question to knowledgeable Romanists out there: Does the Roman Church ever excommunicate persons who are dead? Also as to only excommunicating "practicing Catholics," haven't a LOT of people been excommunicated in the past who didn't claim to be under the authority of Rome?

The fact that Hitler, baptized a Roman Catholic, (and marrying Eva von Braun in a Roman Catholic ceremony right before death? I'm not certain that is true...) wasn't ever formally excommunicated really does bother me... The latae sententiae argument notwithstanding, it seems a cop-out. I mean by definition every heretic of any kind has a self-made latae sententiae excommunication BEFORE formal public excommunication, by default...excommunication is as much for the sake of the Body as it is for the person who is thrown out. The biblical pattern of I Corinthians shows excommunication's purpose is to purge the Church and hopefully to bring the excommunicant into repentance... Latae sententiae excommunication does neither of those two things. For example, I'm sure there are many uninformed (or ill-informed) Roman Catholics, otherwise faithful, who are influenced by the pro-choice Catholic arguments... however if they knew these were no longer Catholic, they would not be so influenced. Similarly there probably are even believing otherwise faithful Catholics who, due to liberal brain washing, are "pro-choice," who, given a choice between formal, public, excommunication and promoting abortion would choose to abandon their pro abort ways... So why is the Church silent?

The Hitler issue was recently brought up by an intelligent friend recently (not a Catholic basher), and it does strike me as bizarre...

90 posted on 01/21/2002 2:36:38 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns
No, Hitler and Eva Braun were married by a civil servant named Wagner. Despite the above, you seem unable to accept that Hitler was not even nominally a Catholic. He was in the strictest sense, an apostate, as he had rejected not only the Church but Christ.
95 posted on 01/21/2002 4:45:32 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: AnalogReigns
Does the Roman Church ever excommunicate persons who are dead?

No. Dead people are beyond the authority of the Visible Church. It would make no sense to excommunicate them.

Also as to only excommunicating "practicing Catholics," haven't a LOT of people been excommunicated in the past who didn't claim to be under the authority of Rome?

Martin Luther and Calvin were definitely one-time Catholics. The case with Elizabeth I is murky, but arguable, since she received Trinitarian baptism, probably by immersion, by the Bishop of London who was certainly validly ordained. (Not that ordination is necessary to confer Christian baptism, but it tends to stengthen the agument that Elizabeth was a Catholic at some point in her life, and almost certainly received the Sacrament.

The fact that Hitler, baptized a Roman Catholic, (and marrying Eva von Braun in a Roman Catholic ceremony right before death? I'm not certain that is true...)

I have never heard that Hitler's marriage to Eva Braun was religious, and inthe absence of good evidence, would not be inclined to believe it.

... wasn't ever formally excommunicated really does bother me... The latae sententiae argument notwithstanding, it seems a cop-out.

You are entitled to this opinion. If the Church somehow erred in not proceeding with the fruitless and extraordinarily provocative act of a public excommunication (and I doubt that not to do so was an error), it was merely a political error, at a time of terrible danger, when the fruits of such a vain gesture would have been vastly outweighed by mortal risks needlessly imposed upon millions of Catholics.

97 posted on 01/21/2002 7:44:37 PM PST by Romulus
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