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To: Tolik
I agree with everything you have said. The mutual isolation of the Western and the Islamic Worlds is a practical impossibility in today's world. That's why I originally said that the only alternatives are for them to accomodate somehow to one another--and maybe that means a prolonged stalemate--destroy each other, or have one destroy the other. If there's an alternative I overlooked I will be overjoyed. It seems that the secularisation of Islam, similar to the secularisation of Christianity in the West, is the best solution, but I don't know if that is possible, and this, of course, reflects my Western bias. The second best solution would seem to be the development of alternatives to Middle Eastern oil; but that doesn't seem to be on the horison. The only other solution, it seems to me, from the Western point of view, would be Western overpowering of those who control the oil fields, and that really seems like a bad idea; maybe there's a better one. What do you think/
35 posted on 02/12/2002 7:04:45 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: Savage Beast
I wish I had some easy, simple answers!

What I have is more questions. One thing which astonished me in the 9/11 events was the fact that the hijackers lived here among us for quite a long time, some of them lived with families! (I wonder if that reports of the families were true, I don't remember reading any follow-ups: where are that families now, disappeared?) Nevertheless, they remained undeterred.

I want to compare their brainwashing with the Soviet propaganda. It was not terribly effective, but it messed up minds well enough. It appeared to be in layers. Top layer for the most gullible, then another layer for a bit smarter ones, and so on. So many times I heard smart people saying "yes that was a lie, but in the core..., [the idea is right]". So, the propaganda machine kind of worked. Nevertheless, those who had more info and a chance, tried to escape, at least for a moment. Soviet apparatchiks, "nomenklatura", fought to put their kids into any job abroad. People coveted any trip, any glimpse outside.  Does not matter how ideologically solid they were, most recognized where the "good" life is. When circumstances happened to allow a safe defection, so many decided to "choose freedom". Whole system existed not to allow the "safe" defection with "hostages" (family members) staying at home, extensive KGB background checking, which countries one can visit or not, etc.

But you can't even start to compare soviet brainwashing with the Arab/Muslim one. When small children are singing how they want to grow up and be a suicide bomber, when people are laughing and singing to celebrate another's tragedy, when one is a hero for blowing up kids in a pizzeria, its just scary. What can overcome such brainwashing and conditioning? Even when people live years in the West in the relative financial comfort, in the West with its openness and tolerance and still hate it so much. Did not they meet at least a few nice people here they would not want to kill? It's like we are from different planets. Astonishing.

 

 

42 posted on 02/12/2002 9:41:40 AM PST by Tolik
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